Special first turn attack advantage for Japan?

@yucatan:

What happens in this case:

Attacker has 2sub, 2ftr, 1ac vs 2sub, 1dst

No dst for attacker so defender’s sub are invisible to 2ftrs.
No surprise attack because the defender has 1dst.

Attacker rolls 2hits: 1 from sub and 1 from ftr.
Now the defender has to choice the casualties. Could he choice the dst as casualty from the sub and no more else because the subs cannot be hitten by ftrs?

No.  All the hits must be assigned if possible, so the fighter hit must be assigned to the destroyer.

@yucatan:

Other thing:
The attacker starts the turn with an enemy sub within his navy. Let’s assume 1sub, 1trn vs 1sub.
The attacker decide to stay and combat, but, after the 1st round of combat (trn lost) he decides to retire. Where?
The rules say “in a sea zone from where at least one combat unit comes”. What happens in this case? They were already there…

In order to allow for the possibility of retreating, they must first move out of the original sea zone and then back into it during Combat Movement.  The sea zone moved through must of course be free of enemy units, otherwise they couldn’t leave it again once they entered.  If this isn’t possible, then neither is retreating.  Of course, the attacking sub may submerge in any case.

I generally have a hard time keeping all of the sub rules straight between the 4 games that use them :x which I find frustrating. If Guadalcanal is going to have subs I’m in big trouble.

Sometimes I have to tap my head with the heel of my hand to shake the correct rule out.  :roll:

Hi folks

the move against both Hawaii and us fleet is a great move… unfortunately you can’t place your carriers in the Aleutian seazone, that would make your planes (in zone 5) make an illegal combat move.
You can’t use the carriers to make a move forward and then send of planes, the planes can only move four spaces.

When I try to make this move and I usually do this.
2 subs to z9
2 planes to z9
4 planes to z5

You will then typically have 2 fighters left from z5 and both fighters from z9
You will only loose 2 subs and 2 fighters total
(these are based out of statics’s of 1000 battles)
The US fleets will be destroyed with the exception of 1 sub left in z5 (if he doesn’t submerge this, he’s crazy)

I would recommend that you then take your carriers and move them to the northern US convoy in z6 and land your fighters here.
Now I know this means that theres a chance that you will loose the carriers and the fighters. US is able to respond to this on their first turn with 3 ftr 2 bmb and 1 sub. But with the convoy there and away from the remainders of the us fleet, its the best choice, if you are performing this move.
The outcome of this battle is very luck dependent, your fighters will have nowhere to land if you loose your carriers. so the sub has a lot to say in this battle.
if we look at the numbers again the us will only be able to clear this zone in about 20% of the time… which is pretty good odds for japan.
But still it would be foolish of the US not to try to make a move against the carriers, as the attacker they have the option of retreating, if it turns out to the dice are against them.

This is IMO a great advantage for japan, as the US will have to build their whole navy again from nothing. You take the convoy, its only 5 IPC but the US will not be able to take the convoy back until turn 2. Besides if they attack you get the chance to weaken their airforce as well.
Sure its a shame to loose the carriers this early in the game, this makes an Australian invasion very hard and you won’t have the power to do nothing else than delay the forthcomming US fleet, without the carriers.
It all depends on your playing style, but if you want to be aggressive, this is a great move. Especially if you go for an Indian invasion, as the US won’t be able to get there before its to late, if you go for this.

Regards,
Daniel

:D :D :D :D :D

Nope! Yesterday I decided to give it a shot in the AAP game I was playing while I was Japan. It worked nice. The british were to worried about defending India to attack me at Yunnan and the forces at szchewan were easily defeated. From my first turn and for a long time I had forty IPC’s and put a bomber on Szcehwan every turn pounding the Indians, I even used one for a SBRaid to take away the sorry 8 dollars India had. I won by taking India!

yeah, i wish somebody could ban him or something

We had 4 guys here last night and we decided to try Pacific (we’ve played World and Europe before). With an extra person, me and my friend decided to team up and rule Japan.

Turns out that wasn’t the best thing to do, it came down to him doing mainland Asia and me managing the Pacific, and that probably tripped us up.

Anyway, heres how it went down.

The 6 planes attacked the Pearl Harbor fleet. Lost 1 fighter and destroyed the fleet. The Fighters came back to sea zone 17 (West of Hawaii) and landed on the carriers.

I decided to take out a lot of stupid islands, another flaw. Guam and Wake easily fell to combos of infantry / fighters / destroyer bombards. I used some destroyers as 1 inf transports.

Then i took the Philipines with every warship in range, and 2 transports (4 inf) and planes. Lost 1 inf in the invasion (this dude can roll 1’s like a mofo).

I took Hong Kong with 1 arty.

My friend did china, and we won with i think 1 inf lost (we beat the 2’s better than the 1’s, somehow). I don’t remember exactly what we took in China but whatever, it didnt matter.

I then moved the fleet @ caroline to the carrier fleet W of Hawaii.

The first turn was way too slow, looking back. Played far too conservatively.

The British player dropped 3 tanks for india and a fighter and something for the Aussies. They did some attack and failed.

America dropped 2 battleships and a destroyer (60 IPC) and saved the other 15. That’s f*cking insane if you ask me. America didn’t do any attacks, and consilidated their fleet @ Hawaii. The two big assed fleets were staring eachother in the face. Advantage America.

Rather than go on at length, I can summarize the rest of the game quickly.

Japan continued to grind through China. We lost NOTHING until we hit Szechwan, which for some reason wouldn’t die. After takign moderate losses we decided to bypass it and head for India. Japan now had 2 fleets, and one began to swing around to India. The one facing overwhelming odds near America retreated to Sea Zone 27 (New Britian / New Guinea), killing a smaller british fleet with no losses (tipped / untipped battleships). New Britian was Invaded.

I’ll just summarize “the end” of the game. The Japanese fleet heading to India, well, got raped. The British, in a move of desperation, engaged the larger japanese fleet. The laws of probability were proven wrong as the Brits destroyed a Battleship, carrier, 2 fighters, 2 destroyers, and 4 transports while only losing a transport and a sub. Insanity. The land assault on india failed (they had one fighter left! ACK!)

Basically, Japan was out of continential Asia. We had some defensive forces but most of it was thrown at India. The Japanese fleet consolidated in the Sea of Japan, the American Fleet moved to Sea Zone 22 (2 East of Mainland Japan, out of kamakazie range). The Brits nabbed most of continental asia and america took over some islands.

We declared the game over, because japan was dead in the water with 11 VPs, getting 1 a turn. It was a matter of time until America got a lot of land forces, but not 11 turns.

As a laugh, we rolled out the Sea of Japan battle. Here are the fleets:

Japan came out with 3 Battleships in tact.

I like submarines… :)

The US starts out with an IC there so yes, all original factories provide for unlimited production.

BB