'God', the Facist

@Yanny:

Disclaimer: This is not ment to offend anyone. This is based on my opinion and objective information I have gathered. I’ve been thinking of this while camping all week. I believe in it, but if you are a firm, blind Christrian, Muslim, or Jew, stop reading now, I don’t want to hear your opinion if your ideals are blinded like this. Post only fair, well thought out, and clean information below. I don’t want to see Blind Faith comments.

God is a facist. This is refering to the Christian, Jewish, and Islaamic “God”, which is beyond a doubt refered to as the same god. This may apply to hundreds of Religions, but for the purposes of this discussion I am just going to talk about this God. I still do not believe this ‘god’ exists, but I will assume he exists for the purposes of this discussion.

Facism: system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship.

I thought up this discussion while listening to others say Grace at a Boy Scout Camp (thats where I was last week, I did not join in for Grace). Supposively, we are all “Servants” of the “Lord”. We all must obey Him. We shall not question Him. He has a strict set of rules for us to follow.

There were many past Facisms. I will only refer to Germany in this discussion.

Hitler and God have a lot alike. Both were loved by their people. Both have an ever present fanatical following. Both rule by force, Hitler with his concentration camps and secret police, God with the ever present threat of Hell, and His fits of anger which result in thousands of deaths.

Hitler’s rule started for one reason and one reason only. Germany was in ruins, suppressed by the Treaty of Versailes, mastered to a near imperialist state by France and England.

Similarly, the Christian Religion took over during Roman rule. The Hebrews (who were supressed in Palestine), looked for a change. They broke out against their Imperialist Romans, and Christianity was born.

Hitler is seen as an evil Man, and I agree with that, because of all he had done. God is not looked upon as bad. Why? Because God won the war. God established His brainwashing system, having Parents create more servants for Him.

When God gets angery, you know. For example, He flooded the entire world, ala Noah’s Ark.

‘God’ has taken many forms. Some say Jesus was his son, some say Muhammad. But God has never showed himself. All these good things that come from Religion actually come from those who work for God. Similar things occured in Nazi Germany, non-Jewish citizens enjoyed a good life until the bombings started.

Absolute obedience is required for both. Hitler punished the disobedient with Death. God punishes them far worse, with eternal Hell. We live in fear of Hell. Germans lived in fear of Hitler.

Now, as an Agnostic, I ask you Christians/Jews/Muslims a question. Why the f**k should I become a Slave to this God?

First of all, as a Jew and an Israeli (please dont ban me for this!), I cna tell you that the Christian God and Jewish God are quite different. First of all, Judaism encourages questioning any part of the religion, including God’s power and existence. God has set out rules for us to follow, but in Judaism, Rabbis works on how you find out what the rules are exactly and how to make Judaism more “user-friendly” in a manner of speaking, without breaking the halacha (that’s the word for Jewish law). In Judaism, you will not go to hell by making some mistakes. Judaism recognizes that we are all human and makes mistakes. True, all your sins and good deeds are weighed out but you cna wipe out sins easily, especially by being a good person. That is Judaism’s foundation. Relations between perople come before relations between people and God. True, God has killed many people, and you will find that many Jews attempt to analyze this to see exactly what these people had done wrong. Also, in Judaism, the non-Jews are not considered bad people. In fact, in the book of Jonah, the non-Jews were better than the Jewish prohpet, Jonah. The non-Jews can still go to heaven and will still remain during Judaism’s coming of the messiah. It is quite different from Christian and Muslim beliefs which were taken from Judaism and altered. I cna post more, if you want me to go on. If you want to research the subject, there are PLENTY of books that you cna read on them and you cna go to a rabbi and ask any question you like. I believe I can guarantee you will get answers for every question you have.

Also, Yanny, what you said about the Hebrews is quite inaccurate. Firstly, they were called Jews. Secondly, the place was called Judea from the name Judah. Also, Judaism start long before the Great Revolt against the Roman Empire over 1000 years before that revolt. It was just one part of Jewish history that was very horrible.

Hope you are prepaired Yanny, cause this forum gonna get rough.

haha yea. and wtf is wrong with being a Facist? although i am Athiest, i do like the ways Religeon is preacticed and stuff like that. it keeps order! and i can predict that Falk is gonna go haywire on my ass for saying whats wrong with being a facist so im gonna stop b4 i get my self intoa S*** storm. take care then bye bye now :)

nope my friend it isnt. communism is a bad thing

o oops " u beleive facism is a bad thing" i thought u were trien to preach to me facism is a bad thing. well every one has there opinion :)

Yanny, your logic is too simplistic. I mean here is an example of your logic….I am smart. Einstein was smart. I must be as smart as Einstein. Yes, there is the threat of Hell but God is merciful and offers the chance for one to change his or her actions and conduct. So a ‘bad’ person isn’t necessarily destined to Hell. He or she has the opportuntiy to change. I’m sure Hitler gave that chance to Rommel and etc.

Actually, Yanny, your whole basis for the Jewish religion is completely rong. Jews don’t consider Jesus and Mohammed like Saints. They belive they existed historically, but are believed to have been false prophets. Also, Muslims don’t worship Mohammed. They consider him the final prophet that laid out new rules from God. It is the same as how the Jews don’t worship Moses, they simply believe he was a prophet that helped lead with the will of God.

About your idea of the 10 commandments, are they really commandments or not? In Hebrew they are called “Asseret Hadibrot” which means “The 10 Statements”. They aren’t caled commandments. There are whole arguements in Judaism about whether they are commandments or not. That is part of the process of the Jewish religion. Questioning even the msot basic beliefs and answering those questions.

There are fanatics, but there are fanatics for everything. There are Communist fanatics, there are even fanatics who feel strongly about others things, such as rap music. Some people are vey radical, you can’t let those radicals influence your idea of the whole. The concept of reward and punishment is very hard to analyze for the simple fact that we DON’T KNOW what the requirements are to get into heaven or hell. Each religion says something different.

Also, would you prefer that modern laws were not based on good laws such as those found in the 10 commandments. I personally dont want to live in a society where you are allowed to kill, to steal and do other very nasty things.

Christians don’t believe that God is like a facist.

First, would you call a dog owner a facist? He provides for the dog, feeds it, walks it, gives it a place to sleep, and tries to trains it, butt ultimately the dog has free will. My point is, God could only be a dictator if he was equal to humans.

Second, God is a benvolent father providing for his children. Is a parent a facist? You could easily make a case for such.

When people become ominesiencent and omnipotent, they will no longer require a “benevolent dictator.”

When people become ominesiencent and omnipotent, they will no longer require a “benevolent dictator.”

Right… I’m sure just being human would justify not having a “benevolent dictator.” And who says God is benevolent? For many people in this world, God may seem like a cruel joke to them.

@Yanny:

Sorry about my mistakes about the Jewish Religion.

You gave two very good examples at the basic principles of Facism. Mastering a dog is probably Facism at it’s most basic level. Complete Obeydience is required or the dog gets punished. I’m more of a cat person myself, I don’t train my cats.

Parenting is also a good example. However, there is one key different. Kids have a choice. I choose to be disobeydient to my parents, although I am not always punished. However, I do not have this choice for my afterlife. I am either going to Heavan or to Hell, it’s his choice and I cannot change that.

Because God is infalable, invincable, and unconested, he gains absolute power. There is no democracy, no choice, no stopping him. He acts as if we were all His toys. I am not some play thing of a God, I am my own self.

i really am not wanting to enter into this particular fray. It feels inappropriate to dignify this particular post.
At the same time, consider that we all have free will. We may leave God and return as our will and whim dictates. We stay (or return) because of love for God, not fear of punishment. As for hell - well, this is something we choose.
You seem to be missing the premise of Christianity if this is they way you look at things.
You might look at it this way. You are about to cross the street in front of a rolling bus. I pull you away from the road to save your life. You push me away, and walk directly into the path of the oncoming bus. No one forced you into that path, you chose it yourself.
I believe God wants us to ask questions. God wants a relationship with us that needs to work both ways. If God simply gave us orders and directions and we had to toe that fine line, or “God would send us to hell” then i would tend to agree with you. This is not the way it works. One may build up a relationship with God the way one might with a lover or a partner, or a friend. As one gets to know God’s will, we try to follow it. If we are unsuccessful (read: sinful) - “we know that God will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (somewhere in Romans). This is not to say that we should sin-away as we know that we’ll be forgiven, but rather that we should try not to sin for that very reason - because Jesus has arranged it (by dying) for that sin to be disregarded.
No, Hitler (and other fascists) would have one tortured and killed for the kind of questioning that i have done much of my life - if God was the same way. I have disobeyed God often enough (nearly daily, in fact) to burn me in hell for many eternities if we were to buy into your little rant. However because of Jesus’ sacrifice and God’s justice, i may sin for much of my life yet, and still receive a place in heaven.
The only way that your analogy holds is at the very end of things. If we reject God, then we have gone to a place of our choosing. If we accept God, then we have done the same. What happens in between is largely immaterial (i don’t buy into pergatory YB), except that it contributes (or does not) to our relationship with God.
Speaking of which, i havn’t prayed much recently, and i think i will do so now - it’s nice to stay in touch with a friend.

@Yanny:

Sorry about my mistakes about the Jewish Religion.

You gave two very good examples at the basic principles of Facism. Mastering a dog is probably Facism at it’s most basic level. Complete Obeydience is required or the dog gets punished. I’m more of a cat person myself, I don’t train my cats.

Parenting is also a good example. However, there is one key different. Kids have a choice. I choose to be disobeydient to my parents, although I am not always punished. However, I do not have this choice for my afterlife. I am either going to Heavan or to Hell, it’s his choice and I cannot change that.

Because God is infalable, invincable, and unconested, he gains absolute power. There is no democracy, no choice, no stopping him. He acts as if we were all His toys. I am not some play thing of a God, I am my own self.

Yanny we do have free choice. Let me try to explain this to you. It may be a hard concept to understand because it’s a bit confusing, but I’ll try anyway.

People have free choice. God knows what we will choose, what the outcome of our choices will be and knows everything about what we will choose. It is set in stone from the day we are born. So far, it sounds like a puppetmaster and that we have no free choice. BUT, we don’t know what God knows and because we don’t know what our choices will be, we can choose what we want to do. God knows what we will choose and what the coutcome of our choices will be, but since we dont we can choose what we want. This will be what God knows it is, but the option is still there.

I do agree with Yanny to some degree here. If a god does exist then I think he should respect me as a fellow occupant of the universe and sentient being. I don’t believe I need to praise him becuase he happens to be a particularly powerful being and could stike me down, if he so chooses, becuase I don’t stroke his ego, however it may be called. If god really has a problem with that and doing what I chose, whether or not it is sanctioned by god, then there isn’t really much I can do about it as a mere mortal; so I don’t worry too much about if my actions are the will of god.

Where are all the posters from the other threads who say that humans are not arrogant? All that hard work flushed away by Yanny.