What if the Soviet Union joined the Axis and Japan joined the Allies (well really Japan erupting into an Imperial Civil War)?

@midnight_reaper

When I first came up with these ideas, I always thought of them being used together (using only the Soviet Union one is suicide for the Allies, as I have discovered), which is why I didn’t really keep them separate. Sorry about that.

@nolimit

Cool! I love that! The reason why I did not simply turn Japan into an Allied power is that after the naval led coup, it is likely that the army men will escape, and fight on in mainland Asia, thus beginning this specific conflict.

@nolimit

Also, I doubt that China could have joined the Axis, unless:

China and Japan magically have all of their dislike for each other disappear and their war ends.

Hitler decides to ally with China, instead of Japan, which is a bad idea, as China is far weaker than Japan.

@nolimit

I also have an idea for another Soviet national objective:

5 IPCs if the Soviet Union controls 6 Chinese territories. Theme: aid to the Chinese communists and establishment of a Communist Chinese government.

@nolimit

I think that if you also remove Italy out of the Axis to the Allies, then it will be a very interesting game as the remaining Axis powers, who dominate the continent, try to challenge the world’s first, second, and third largest navies (Royal navy, IJN, and Reiga marina), whilst the Allies have several (not so insignificant) footholds in Asia and Europe (or should I say bootholds?), which the Axis will have to eliminate, and it can be a challenge for Germany to eliminate France, Italy, and the Balkans before reinforcements come in (in the first turn, Italy can move the entire Tobruk stack to the continent).

@nolimit

Great idea! I never thought of that! Looking forward to your rules!

@nolimit

Yes, but it will certainly look hilarious when you add up Allied ships vs Axis ships at setup-don’t forget: the Soviets and Germany aren’t really affected by convoy attacks, so the Allies really only can escort transports-also, I think the Soviets should be able to declare war earlier than round 4, to continue the idea of the Axis having political initiative, if you ignore historical accuracy such as China never being able to join the Axis.

@superbattleshipyamato123

I did the math, here are the results if we add Italy, Japan, France, and Britain’s (including ANZAC) navies up at setup (not including the US) compared to your hypothetical Axis navy (Soviet Union, China, and Germany).

Battleships: 6 to 1 (in favour of the Allies)

Cruisers: 12 to 2 (in favour of the Allies)

Destroyers: 14 to 0 (in favour of the Allies)

Transports: 11 to 1 (in favour of the Allies)

Submarines: 3 to 7 (in favour of the Axis)

Aircraft carriers: 4 to 0 (in favour of the Allies)

Or:

Total ships: 46 ships to 11 ships (in favour of the Allies)

Or:

Total IPCs worth of ships count: 515 IPCs worth of ships to 93 IPCs (in favour of the Allies)

Kind of hard to win at sea when you only have a four submarine advantage over your opponent, and are outnumbered 6 to 1 in battleships and cruisers, 14 to 0 in destroyers, 4 to 0 in carriers, and 11 to 1 in transports, and your opponent having more than 5 times as much IPCs in ships as you.

Adding the US navy at setup brings another one battleship, one aircraft carrier, 3 transports, 3 cruisers, 3 destroyers, two submarines, or 13 ships, or 129 IPCs worth of ships to the Allies.

It will be fun and interesting to watch the Axis try to achieve parity or superiority.

@nolimit

Exactly, so you will have to update the winning conditions to force the Axis to have to go overseas-perhaps Axis need to take 15 victory cities on the map? Your Axis start with 7, and the most they can get from mainland Eurasia and Africa are an additional 5 victory cities-Operation Sealion, the invasion of the Philippines and the invasion of either North America, Australia, or Japan is needed.

@nolimit

Oops, sorry! My mistake…

The reason I hoped to do 15 victory cities is that the Axis will have to build up a big navy, instead of just doing an all continental assault, perhaps we can make it a 13 victory cities required win, as that will require at least an Operation Sealion which, without a Japanese navy to worry about, the Americans and British can completely focus on the Atlantic, which will lead to epic naval battles.

I think you should make so if China has all it’s territories captured, and the Allies control Africa (excluding strict neutrals), that combined, should be a substitute for capturing an Axis capital-it still won’t be an easy fight.

Another insane idea that I have for you is to have the US join the Axis-how you will balance this is your choice (also, please tell me how many rounds it will take for the Axis to win with only the US with the Axis).

@superbattleshipyamato123

Here are the ground forces comparison (Italy, Britain, Japan, ANZAC, and France, or Allies to China, Germany and the Soviet Union, or Axis):

Infantry: 101 to 98 (in favour of the Allies)

Tanks: 8 to 11 (in favour of the Axis)

Artillery: 22 to 11 (in favour of the Allies)

Mechanised infantry: 5 to 6 (in favour of the Axis)

Anti aircraft artillery: 18 to 12 (in favour of the Allies)

Total ground units (Allies to Axis): 153 units to 138 units (in favour of the Allies)

Total IPCs in ground units (Allies to Axis): 545 IPCs to 488 IPCs (in favour of the Allies)

Adding the US adds another 8 infantry, one tank, three mechanised infantry, two artillery, and four anti aircraft artillery, or 70 IPCs worth of ground units.