KJF - Now what do I do???

Well I like an American Pacific offensive more and more because I find that Japan cannot keep pace in the fleet wars and build up a land force to threaten Moscow at the same time.  Either it loses the fleet battle (which means Japan will lose half its income) or it can only send a token force against the Russians.  So I go Pacific whenever I can.  But if USA starts with a disadvantage in the Pacific (this will be most games), it is not the best strategy.  The best players will adapt their strategy to what is happening in the game.

Usually I leave 1 inf in Manchuria, if Russia stack Buryatia, and attack China with 6 inf and 2 fig. IN NCM move two inf in FIC.

If Russia retreat to Yakut, I attack china with 6inf and 2 fig and leave 1 inf in FIC, landing there 1 inf and 1 tank and 2 fig.

Honestly, I believe it is best to play ultra conservatively with Russia and England and see how the dice line up.  If one Axis power ends up in an exceptionally poor position after their first round, America can then make the choice between KJF or KGF.

However, here is a run down for you:

Kill Germany First:

Easiest strategy.  Everyone is clustered around Germany so coordination is easier.  This is also much more fault tolerant then going after Japan.  However, Germany also has the most assets and the best capability of getting assets, not to mention all of their territories are land locked (comparatively speaking of course) resulting in much easier defense of those territories.  Exceptions are Norway, Algeria and Libya, but those 5 IPC can be made up for in other places if needed (and if not, 35 IPC is still a lot of money.)

Kill Japan First:

Japan’s by far the weakest power on the board.  Their territories are scattered all over the ocean and they start the game facing two moderately powerful fleets.  (UK: 2 Transports, Submarine, Fighter, Carrier, Destroyer in SZ 30 and America’s Battleship, Transport, Destroyer, Submarine, 3 Fighters and Carrier in the Pacific (SZ 52, 55, 20, Hawaii and W. USA.))  However, they also have the benefit of being scattered all over the place making it harder to take their territories (but easier to hold once they are taken.)

If facing a large build up of forces in Buryatia, Sinkiang + Industrial Complex and India + Complex, Japan can find them selves in serious trouble fast; but Germany will have much free’er reign in Europe and Africa.

@newpaintbrush:

So are you saying that the Norway-Wrus-Ukr attack is bad for LL and for ADS for the SAME REASONS?  No, of course not.  See my last post.  Would you like to expound on the idea that what is good for ADS is good for LL and vice versa?  For I disagree.

My contention is that what is good in LL is good in ADS HOWEVER what is good in ADS may not be good in LL.
My point about the nor/wrus/ukr battle is that just b/c you may succeed in certian battles (either individual battles here and there or a few battles taken in the same turn) in LL way way way more in ADS does not make it a sound strategy for the entire game.  And I laid out just a couple of example where you could have high odds battles but it hurts you in the long run (the Moscow scenerio and the crazy ala move etc.)

It is much easier to translate LL strats to ADS.

I don’t think I said this triple would “inevitablely” fail in LL, I believe I said it “may” fail which in a way would confirm what the ADS odds told you in rd 1.
I certainly think there could be a coerrelation between LL odds and ADS odds.

Due to the nature of LL we know you can have a battle of a 100% success, which in ADS may be 90-95%.  I don’t think it is then unreasonable to think that multiple battles in LL where you have 80% success awould translate to maybe 65% in ADS.  Thus it isn’t unreasonable to think a LL battle with 60% success rate may then indeed be 40% in ADS (per your triple example).

So when playing a game in ADS if you have a threshold to actually go through with most battles (say you would like a 60-70% chance to succeed in ADS) that does not mean you’d have 60-70 in LL, the LL odds would probably be much closer to 80.  So when you see a battle at 40% success in ADS it should probably tell you that you have maybe 60% or so in LL BUT those AREN’T great odds for LL, considering you can be much more efficient in your attacks in LL.

60% odds are not that great for LL, considering the best LL players probably should win about 75-80% of their games.  Why lower your standards to 60%?  It just doesn’t make sense to me.  Maybe it is a good opening and causes enough damage to Germany, but I think it can leave Russia a bit too thin.

And yes there are times where 1-1 is a good trade and even times where you come out on the low end but the battle can still be deemed a success, but I don’t think Russia 1 is that time esp since the Axis can usually make an Africa push and Japan can make early gains in Asia, and it still takes the UK/US a few turns to get their shuck going.

Edit:

I should also say that by strat, I mean a series of moves (or buys) that take place over several turns not something a player may do in only one move or one turn.

I think the fall of 1 capitol for one full game turn (ie if it falls on USA’s turn, it must go all the way back to USA’s turn before it is a full turn) without liberation should do it.  In the case where two capitols fall (say Germany falls to England and Russia falls to Japan right after) then the game is back on keel and you keep going until one side surrenders, a capitol is liberated or another capitol is captured.

Hello there

New member on the forum, however I’ve been surfing around here for a few weeks and I’m gonna throw myself into the fray :)
I’m not saying “I know the perfect way” but would like to give you a few advices how to play a defensive Jap and what to think of when on a KJF hunt is coming.

What I first want to say is that our current group plays with no bids, no tech, no NA. Still have a few new players so bids are not needed (yet?).
I have a lot of games behind me, both old and revised.
A lot of this will contain “this gives this and that, all of it ofc changes depending on what the enemy buys/does” and I can’t write all things that can happend and I won’t, this will be a long post anyway :D

What I do as Japan is first of all, avoid pearl if england flies it’s fighter there and you’ve lost the sub (I prefer pearl light), the 2 BB’s are really needed when defending.
The key in my Japanese defensive is to build transports (3 first turn with a followup of INF+ART + ftr if I can afford since you only need to fill 3 Trn, the last one is down in the south taking inf from the southern islands).
Ofc you have to kill China…if you don’t you ARE doomed, seen to many games with US pumping fighters/tanks in sinkiang.

So I prefer killing off the Brittish fleet and China, reinforce FIC from Jap and wait with Buy 1 turn (you get 3 TRN next turn that can massacre Buy)
Japan need to get going, but with a “slow-starter” you will get more troops (IC on mainland is a “fast starter”) and you have time to react if they go all out KJF and adjust for defence instead of offense.

Now when US comes over the pacific there are a few very important things to remember.
1. If he goes for extra bomber+ftr he will be a monster in offense, however his defence is weaker.
2. If he goes for AC you must be prepared for a very strong US fleet and you must equid your carriers with ftr’s.

Now the pacific is big, utilize SZ60 for naval defence if he goes wake island (to be able to use extra fighters) he won’t go for east indies.
Use the fact ftr have 4 in movement (ftr on AC SZ60 has a range 3 inland, and therefore you can move that one in ashore while a fighter ashore also attacks and flies out to the AC. You still reach Yakut and China from Sz60 and ofc FIC, therefore 6 fighters can act both defence for SZ60 and land and still be attacking every round).
The bomber should be in Kwantung as much as possible, same here, it will be able to strike the importand islands and wake island seazone.
(remember this is a defending japan, and that is what you are doing on a KJF, because if japan grows outside Novo/China/india well…then you’re not having a KJF).

What I want is the US fleet trading island in the southern pacific…why? because if the US moves his whole fleet to southern pacific he will be too far away to reinforce it from US and with 3 transports, 2 BB and 2 AC you can take 7 hits before even loosing attackpower (yes I mean you should sacrifice AC’s when it comes to a naval clash everything is about sinking US BB’s while keeping yours).
If he only uses TRN for taking you island, use ftr to sink the trn, 1TRN to retake the island with the help of a bomber from mainland.
A lot of people are obsessed with “taking IPC’s” but trading a 3 IPC island 3 moves away from your factory while the enemy has 1 move…that is not a good thing to do, because japan can easily get more land troops. US cannot.
Japan only needs 1 transport to retake islands, US need loads of transports to threaten japan.
And after 1 switch you have 1 INF (hopefully 2) on the island and suddenly US must dedicate more than “just 1 TRN” to take the island.

The biggest problem comes to…when should you attack the US fleet?
that depends way to much on how the US fleet looks like, I prefer boxing Japan and if I feel too threatened I go 1 round of only making 1DD + 2 Sub

So to sum up:
Kill off the brits so you only have to worry about 1 fleet.
Gather up you BB’s with extra TRN for superb defence.
Reinforce fleet with 1 ship / round if they are going KJF. (you can still afford 3-4 INF and 1-2 ART units to ship ashore)
If you are being reduced to 1 TRN, make that ship a TRN, if not build a sub, US really hates when he only has his trn+BB to choose what will die. If you feel rich make a DD

Japan will probably not grow, but that means that Germany can take Africa and more important put pressure on Rus. Important here is that I usually make a TRN buy for Baltic and then a DD on G2 to secure Baltic and simply hammer any brittish fleet trying to take Norway/WE, utilize your luftwaffe and you are secure.
(with 2 TRN in Baltic and 1 in Meditteranian sea you can send 6 INF/ART to the front each turn making a 4 INF 2 ART 4 ARM i very solid build for smashing Russia fast).
(When US goes pacific you simply sacrifice 1-2 planes to take out the american fleet if he tries going for africa).

I don’t know how your US are doing the KJF, I’m really interested in the US1-2 Buy.
A smart american buys a strike force US1-2 and skip transports to simply eliminate the Jap fleet and THEN start invading with TRN.
However most players buy Transports + INF to have with them in the 1st attack…which means the US fleet ain’t as strong as it could be. How does it look for you?

@frimmel:

God d**n perhaps?

okay i gottch’ya. if your goin swear paintbrush do it right you F*******e(wroung way)  :-)

Thank you.  I just join.