Pearl Harbour Attack

@morvill said in Submarine & Fighter attack, Fighter DD defense - Retreat Rules:

To me, it seems like because the 2 defending fighters have a valid target, that being the 1 attacking fighter, this condition is not met. And it does not specify “All units of a particular type”, so we can’t say the destroyer was “all units” in any sense. I don’t think I’ll see any disagreement on that. Thus, another round of combat will ensue unless the attacker chooses to retreat. The submarines cannot submerge at any other point than step 2 of the General Combat Sequence, thus for the subs to remain in the sea zone, another round of combat must persist, otherwise they must retreat “with” (the fighters remain the sea zone as part of their retreat) the fighter. Yet, if the attacker chooses to press, the subs do not have any valid targets for the next round of combat. Again, they could choose to submerge, but you could also surprise strike at “no units”, which to my knowledge is neither allowed nor disallowed by the rules, at least in this context.

Correct. It doesn’t matter whether or not all units on both sides have a valid target, only that at least one on each side does. If the attacker decides to press, all units will remain in the sea zone, even those that don’t have a valid target (the subs). If the attacker decides to retreat, all attacking units must retreat. As you say, the subs can submerge in the next combat round, but the only reason for them to do so would be so that they can remain in the sea zone if the attacker decides to retreat at the end of that round, as they are effectively out of the fight anyway.

Not sure if this is relevant, but per the rules:

Sea zones are either friendly or hostile. Friendly sea zones contain no surface warships (this doesn’t include submarines and transports) belonging to a power with which you are at war. Hostile sea zones contain surface warships belonging to a power with which you are at war. (The presence of a surface warship
belonging to a power on the other side with which you are not yet at war doesn’t make
a sea zone hostile.) pg. 8

The friendly/hostile state of the sea zone has no bearing on combat. That is relevant only to movement.

@faruu

Exactly! That’s why I always wait for a declaration of war. Attacking first caused Japan to lose in real life.

If I am playing a non-balanced mod game of G40, I always bring Russian mech/tanks and a couple of planes to help out China.  They often can help fortify Yunnan for a critical round, or have an opportunity to blitz into Malaysia for the big bonus and additional headache.  If things are not looking promising in China, the fast movers can make it back to Moscow before they are needed for a final assault on the capitol.  If China has more income and Japan is hurt in the mainland of Asia, USA can spend additional income in the Atlantic.  That more than compensates for the reduced units in the European theater.  In fact, if the Allies can keep and fortify Yunnan, they have a very high chance of winning.

@ChocolatePancake:

That’s right, you can be at war with France all you want, but attacking French Indo-China, even a failed attack or an attack against just some British units, even if it’s just planes, counts as an attack.

Yep, the idea is that you are always attacking the territory, never just the units inside.

Japan may be able to take any IC that the UK has/builds in Africa/Mideast.  A Japan that does a J4 along with sending its entire fleet into the Indian Ocean to take Egypt is tough to beat along with a successful German G1.

OK thanks!

@captainhook:

-Do submarines fire a sneak attack every round where a destroyer is not present, or only on the first round?

Every round.

@captainhook:

If the last destroyer is killed, do the sub get to fire a sneak attack?
Sorry for that…

Yes, on the next round of combat after the final enemy destroyer has been removed as a casualty.

@Gargantua:

There are no cats in America…

Steven Spielberg’s “once upon a time in America” great movie!