That’s the point though. Sea Lion is an objective for Germany but there is no justification for doing while the USSR is still a credible threat because once you capture London, there is no way in hell you can defend against the US liberation and the Soviet invasion. Hence, just don’t do it. I am only suggesting that if one wanted to do an early Sea Lion, you will need Japan to put so much pressure on USSR that Germany can focus completely on US thus Japan will lose in the Pacific. I agree Sea Lion isn’t a wise move.
Russia declaring war on Japan, can this happen?
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@Young:
Russia can declare against Japan whenever they want.
Correct… and I find that there are many diverse opinions as to when and why Russia should DOW on Japan.
Why should they not do so in the first round? Is there any downside?
Of course only declare the war. Not attack. -
Since Bravehart is playing with the 1st edition rules, there is no Mongolia rule in effect. Under the 1st edition rules, the details of the Soviet-Japanese non-aggression pact are undefined in the rules. It is up to the players involved to negotiate the treaty, and it can involve any agreement that doesn’t break any other rules of the game.
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Hiya Krieghund,
Thanks for seeking my question here. Can you give an example of the treaty how players combine this please?
Repeating the situation:
the Russian and German player waited the 4th turn ( or Germany toyed with Russia till the 4th turn for Russia to make the first move on attack. As you know this 4th move is just between European Axis ).
SO on 4th move Russia also went into Korea which was open ( as I was presuming Russia couldn’t attack Japan, as I moved units into deeper China territory ). I allowed it…after a few disagreements but how can it be solved?
In the result, Russia payed the penalty and lost all but 3 men out of 18 who stayed out of the suicide move to Korea.
I suppose the Russians want to goto war with Japan so it helps the USA come over to land an Indus complex in Korea/Manchuria? -
It’s totally up to the players involved what the terms of the treaty are (as long as no game rules are broken) and how to enforce those terms. Just like in real life, you can’t always trust someone else to do what they say they’re going to do.
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Best I can remember (loooong time since I played 1st edition OOB) is that there is nothing in the rules stopping the Russians or the Japanese from attacking/invading each other. I believe either could declare war on the other from the get go w/o any restrictions (unless you set terms for a pact like Krieghund said).
Before the Mongolian Defense Pact came into play (2nd ed rules) some people used an NO type pact rule that simply gave 12 IPCs to the side that was attacked first. Some just added the IPCs it to their bank upon the attack (to use when there turn came up), some ppl awarded 12 IPC worth of units (or 4 inf) to be placed right on the board on any of the territories that were attacked. Again though, you probably needed to set this up before the game started lol.
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That actually is a good suggestion Wild Bill, and yes to be made to suggest b4 game play ( it would of solved the mess I was in on the wkd!! ). House rules would have to be put into place.
The other way of course is for us to start playing some, maybe not all, but some 2nd edition rulings that have an answer.
BH
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I thought that the victim of the attack would recvieve 12 ipcs in 1st addition
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Nope, not in OOB rules.
BH
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G40 changed a lot from 1st edition to 2nd edition (the Alpha process). I would suggest you take a look at some of these changes in the near future (incorporating them into your games). G40 has really evolved, and one of the biggest changes IMO was to airbases. You can now scramble up to 3 aircraft from any airbase (not just island airbases that had unlimited scramble in 1st ed OOB). Just seemed wrong to be able to scramble from Japan, but not from England or other coastal territories w/AB.
Alpha+1 introduced a Non Aggression Pact (NAP) in a form of an NO for both Japan and Russia. The 12 IPCs was awarded to the power that was attacked first (victim). It carried on into Alpha+2.
Alpha+3 is when that was switched out to the Mongolian rules that we have now, and Korea was added to the mix in the second edition rules.
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Thanks for the recap on the stages of the Alpha’s. I do like the newer rules I think compared to the OOB rules. Just gatta break the group on the next new game.
BH
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