Poll: German First Turn Build

So it’s a decent act to get your troops and tanks out of Africa and go full bore after the Ruskies. Loosing the 10 IPCs has to hurt though…even if you know you’ll just loose them eventually anyway.

No one ever bids tanks into Europe? Maybe, 21 IPCs, 3 tanks, 2 infantry? The extra 2 inf, will keep E. Euro from falling, and the extra 3 tanks might be a nice addition on your counter attack into Karelia G1.

The Russians become vulnerable if they move inf towards the East from Rus and ENO while keeping the SFE arm out of reach from KAR on R2.

This would be cause to take the Lib arm onto the mainland. Buy 6 arm to take Kar on G2.

If Kar is stacked to the max and the middle and eastern Rus forces go west, then stick w/defense. Add the tran for taking Afr so you can afford the heavier defense while reducing GBR capacity for offence. 8 inf + trn.

Smith:

No way. No good Allied player is going to let that fleet just roam around. I would advise to always make it priority number one in the first few turns. If it costs 1-2 aircraft sobeit

I see your point. However, I am OK with trading your fighters for my Navy as long as you are willing to chase them down. The 8 ipcs are only 1 tank 1 inf, or 3 inf. Germany can survive the start of the game without this, especially in a bid game. I just think your efforts to chase it down, if I can get it to the Indian ocean, gives you an opportunity cost of having the fighters not where you want them in addition to the possible lose of 1-2 fighters.

I see your point. However, I am OK with trading your fighters for my Navy as long as you are willing to chase them down. The 8 ipcs are only 1 tank 1 inf, or 3 inf.

Well first off I don’t think any allied ftrs are that valuable by themselves except for the Russian ftrs. Secondly, the sheer threat of the German navy merits its destruction. If you think that chasing it around because its useless is silly, I’d say not using it is more so. If the German fleet can get to the Indian Ocean it can take India, Madagascar, and even Austrailia. I’d say no thank you to all those options. However for it to escape a couple of things have to happen. The Germans have to take Cauc turn 1 to prevent the RAF from landing their on their first turn, and you must take Syria. However, in doing either you endanger losing the fleet anyways so I’d still say the German fleet is a lost cause. I’d make the Allies destroy it but never build another ship and flush away an inf and a tank. Also I think the Allies if they give it enough effort should kill the German navy on either turn 2-3 before they have a chance to escape so I’d say the vein hope you can run away is pretty unlikely.

Germany can survive the start of the game without this, especially in a bid game.

Yes but can the Allies survive if they let it live. I’d be afraid to try myself.

I just think your efforts to chase it down, if I can get it to the Indian ocean, gives you an opportunity cost of having the fighters not where you want them in addition to the possible lose of 1-2 fighters.

And where should they be at the start of the game? In a Africa bid game the Germans will not be strong enough early to put real pressure on Karelia, and therefore the Brits can go where ever it takes to kill the Italian fleet.

Personally, I can’t forsee a reason to put bid units in Africa. Unless someone gave me an incredible bid like 30+ IPCs… (of course, with that bid, I might go all tanks for a fast kill of USSR and putting them all in Manch…)

Personally, I can’t forsee a reason to put bid units in Africa. Unless someone gave me an incredible bid like 30+ IPCs… (of course, with that bid, I might go all tanks for a fast kill of USSR and putting them all in Manch…)

You should check out the game DarthMax and I are playing in the games section. Also, be sure to check on how it develops. Hopefully, I can show how to best play an Africa bid, but it can work wonders if done right.

I’m just thinking if you stacked the deck in Asia you’d be better off. Or at the least stacking it in Europe. Anything to kill Mother Russia faster.

You can always secure Africa after you own Asia uncontested.

I like 9 inf, 1 arm or 10 inf.

On rare rare rare occasions I’ll buy a ftr and 6 inf save 2.

I don’t really like the tran buy because

1. It will get sunk by rd 3 at the latest. I try to make the German ships a priority.
2. to utilize 2 trans means you are taking 4 inf out of Europe. For what? 8 IPC to buy a tran, then an extra 6 IPC for the extra inf. That is 14 IPC for only 1 round, meaning even if you hold all of Africa you only earn about 10. And, IMO, it is very hard to do that.

I think you are much better off with the 1 tran, taking Egy and Syr and whatever else you can early on, while you build up your European if and make a push for Cauc.

I’m just thinking if you stacked the deck in Asia you’d be better off. Or at the least stacking it in Europe. Anything to kill Mother Russia faster.

Based on when I’ve played against it Asia bids should always fail. This is because the quick start Japan will get off to is offset by a corresponding weakened Germany which will limit the two front pressure Russia is under. IMO its the ability to wage a successful 2-3 front war that gives the Axis an advantage. A PE has limitations because Africa is so quickly and easily nailed down thus forcing the Germans hand against Russia ie Karelia. If they don’t take Karelia fast, and they don’t always, it will be a short game. Even if they do it doesn’t always matter as the Allies should maintain a production advantage against the Axis. Further, if Russia falls back from Karelia to Moscow this will further impede Japans timetable into Novo. I find a good Africa bid will often force the Allies to abandon position in Europe/Asia or Africa and either can be used against them.

Fighter could be nice. Give you a little more playing power in round one, less risk of loosing all and not having killed enough navy.

Ftr purchases only work with a PE bid in which case you primarily need offense and not defense anyway. The standard G1 ftr purchase is 4arm ftr.

I regularly play thorugh every country (AXIS or ALLY) to work every scenerio imaginable. Last time I played Germany, I built 1 Transport and spent the rest on Infantry beacause I wanted to take out England first and then the US, just to see if they could be taken down before Russia. I relocated all navy below SEu (and later built a sufficient navy to stop England from producing a navy) and relocated my ground forces to EEu to hold off any attacking Russian forces. I sent my fighters and bomber to destroy England’s navy every turn until I was able to move my navy in and load up transports for invasion. I spent most of my time re-enforcing Africa to secure IPC’s. It seemed to work well. Japan struggled for a bit with Russia, but eventually wore her down.

@Jacob_b22:

I regularly play thorugh every country (AXIS or ALLY) to work every scenerio imaginable. Last time I played Germany, I built 1 Transport and spent the rest on Infantry beacause I wanted to take out England first and then the US, just to see if they could be taken down before Russia. I relocated all navy below SEu (and later built a sufficient navy to stop England from producing a navy) and relocated my ground forces to EEu to hold off any attacking Russian forces. I sent my fighters and bomber to destroy England’s navy every turn until I was able to move my navy in and load up transports for invasion. I spent most of my time re-enforcing Africa to secure IPC’s. It seemed to work well. Japan struggled for a bit with Russia, but eventually wore her down.

i would love to see the opening turns of that game. I am not sure that this would work well against an effective opponant, but it’s an interesting strat.

I’m sure it would work fine against an opponent of my skill, but you’d have to make almost no errors throughout the game to capitalize on my errors. (I routinely forget to unload transports, or protect a flank….it’s really quite frustrating.)

Though, I bet attacking the best players this way wouldn’t be the wisest of strategies.

Seems like AP describes it well why this never will happen. If Ger wants a tiny chance to succeed, they will need to buy at least 24 ipcs per turn for air to attack NOR, they would need at least 20 ipcs to encounter Russian attacks on EEu, and they would need at least 8 ipcs for building a navy (all per turn). 52 ipcs per turn to make this happen, and still it will look bad on all fronts (36/24/16 ipcs -> 76 ipcs is more likely to get acceptable chances), given that US is doing nothing. So even in an unlikely scenario its impossible (nothing is impossible with a dicegame, but you know what I mean).

Yes, it was against the “Dopey AI”. I have no other opponents to play against. None the less, it did happen. England routinely built a carrier and fighters until I moved my navy up to restrict their production to only transports (which were easily destroyed each time) and infantry. But, by that time I had produced enough infantry to continueously attach England with all that I had until it was depleted. And the US fell quickly after that (I wasn’t exactly watching the US that closely, but I assume they were pushing the Pacific theatre). I didn’t say it was the best strategy. I said it was a different scenerio. Were we not talking about different First Turn Builds for Germany? “why this never will happen” …but you already knew that, didn’t you?

Again, you are assuming a skill level for players.

If someone of sufficient skill was playing Germany against 3 novice allies, one would HOPE they play a game like this just to help even the odds a bit.

I would never play my “A” game against someone who’s a novice. But I also wouldn’t just let them win. A good comprimise is to try new strategies you wouldn’t dare play in a veteran game.

I totally agree. I only attempt these scenerios for the love of the game. Since I’m playing an AI that will seemingly never change…why not try something new? What fun is it to annihilate another player the same way everytime? What appreciation is derived from beating someone that you knew you would beat from the beginning? Victory is much more sweet when odds are overcome.

Jacob,

why dont you join an online A&A club? Lots of competition and skilled players outthere.