Who Wins

@Texas:

@BJCard:

How are you taking Rome by turn 5?  If Italy continually retreats to Rome and leaves ‘roadblocks’ for you… (leaves one inf in Venice turn 1 so Austria cannot advance- must conduct combat in Venice)?  Turn 5-6 the US is landing 12 units in Rome…

Italy can’t move their forces out of Venice towards Rome on I1, Tuscany is Austrian controlled.  They can move them to Piedmont if they want.

So you attack Tuscany be sea?  Ok, then the Italian forces move to Piedmont leaving one infantry in Venice and all other Italian forces go to Florence then.  The Austrian units in Tuscany become sacrificial lambs (which is why I don’t advocate an amphibious attack on Tuscany- those units just end up dead).

Doesn’t change the fact that Austria can’t hit Florence until turn 3 and by then Italy will just have 1 unit there.  Perhaps Italy will have its main stack in Florence if the Austrian attack is weak.  By stacking Florence , Italy can delay Austria another two turns (attack Rome turn 5 at earliest).  If not, this sets up a possible attack on Rome turn 4 by Austria, if they have enough troops to do it, which seems doubtful.

I usually buy a full set of Naval as Britain turn 1, and then buy some for India turn 2 and beyond.  If the German naval attack went poorly then naturally I wouldn’t have to buy much Naval.

As Britain I would rather enjoy a naval buildup against Germany because that is sucking up German IPCs that would otherwise be marching on Paris or Moscow.  Ottoman is not exactly hard to contain for a couple rounds with just the starting forces in the mid east.

Taking Tuscany doesn’t achieve much. You have a chance of losing one unit and after that the Rome garrison is moving to Tuscany anyway. Only time I do those kind of small attacks is to let the opponent move their units the ‘wrong’ way. If that sz bordered Naples, that would have been a good choice, but Tuscany is pointless.

Foring Britain to reinforce Scortland is not worth it. They have troops there anyway and if two German units land there (survivng mines) they are easy meat for the British homeguard.

And building a BB every turn with Germany leaves you around 30. The same (or less) as France. Then there is Russia and Italy.

And every strategy Germany comes up with is seen five turns before Paris is reached. So if Germany goes all Russia, everybody sees that before it is too late. Same goes for every other strategy.

@Tavenier:

Taking Tuscany doesn’t achieve much. You have a chance of losing one unit and after that the Rome garrison is moving to Tuscany anyway. Only time I do those kind of small attacks is to let the opponent move their units the ‘wrong’ way. If that sz bordered Naples, that would have been a good choice, but Tuscany is pointless.

Foring Britain to reinforce Scortland is not worth it. They have troops there anyway and if two German units land there (survivng mines) they are easy meat for the British homeguard.

And building a BB every turn with Germany leaves you around 30. The same (or less) as France. Then there is Russia and Italy.

And every strategy Germany comes up with is seen five turns before Paris is reached. So if Germany goes all Russia, everybody sees that before it is too late. Same goes for every other strategy.

Agreed.

@Tavenier:

Taking Tuscany doesn’t achieve much. You have a chance of losing one unit and after that the Rome garrison is moving to Tuscany anyway. Only time I do those kind of small attacks is to let the opponent move their units the ‘wrong’ way. If that sz bordered Naples, that would have been a good choice, but Tuscany is pointless.

It doesn’t achieve much, but it doesn’t cost much either.  It also reduces the amount of spaces between Vienna and Rome by 1.

@Tavenier:

Foring Britain to reinforce Scortland is not worth it. They have troops there anyway and if two German units land there (survivng mines) they are easy meat for the British homeguard.

And building a BB every turn with Germany leaves you around 30. The same (or less) as France. Then there is Russia and Italy.

…and the CPs have Austria and the Ottomans, which both make more than Russia and Italy.

The German navy isn’t for landing in the UK, it for preventing the UK from landing in France.  As far as the argument for a German navy, take a look at this.  At the start, the respective alliances have the following incomes:  CP - 77, Allies - 113.

If the CPs control the sea, you cut off 50 of the Allies IPCs, shifting that to CP - 77, Allies - 63.  Now there is a cost by the CPs to maintain the sea advantage and the UK can build in India, but that is too far away from the western front to matter.  The CPs have no chance if you don’t prevent the UK and US from landing.  I think I have said that a time or two so far.

@Tavenier:

And every strategy Germany comes up with is seen five turns before Paris is reached. So if Germany goes all Russia, everybody sees that before it is too late. Same goes for every other strategy.

No point in going all Russia.  Paris/Rome is the easiest victory condition to meet.

@BJCard:

@Texas:

@BJCard:

How are you taking Rome by turn 5?  If Italy continually retreats to Rome and leaves ‘roadblocks’ for you… (leaves one inf in Venice turn 1 so Austria cannot advance- must conduct combat in Venice)?  Turn 5-6 the US is landing 12 units in Rome…

Italy can’t move their forces out of Venice towards Rome on I1, Tuscany is Austrian controlled.  They can move them to Piedmont if they want.

So you attack Tuscany be sea?  Ok, then the Italian forces move to Piedmont leaving one infantry in Venice and all other Italian forces go to Florence then.  The Austrian units in Tuscany become sacrificial lambs (which is why I don’t advocate an amphibious attack on Tuscany- those units just end up dead).

Doesn’t change the fact that Austria can’t hit Florence until turn 3 and by then Italy will just have 1 unit there.  Perhaps Italy will have its main stack in Florence if the Austrian attack is weak.  By stacking Florence , Italy can delay Austria another two turns (attack Rome turn 5 at earliest).  If not, this sets up a possible attack on Rome turn 4 by Austria, if they have enough troops to do it, which seems doubtful.

I usually buy a full set of Naval as Britain turn 1, and then buy some for India turn 2 and beyond.  If the German naval attack went poorly then naturally I wouldn’t have to buy much Naval.

As Britain I would rather enjoy a naval buildup against Germany because that is sucking up German IPCs that would otherwise be marching on Paris or Moscow.  Ottoman is not exactly hard to contain for a couple rounds with just the starting forces in the mid east.

They also take out 2 Italian infantry in the process.  I have tried it both ways and taking Tuscany turn 1 typically works better (they get to defend at 3 rather than attacking at 2 in Venice plus you gain the battleship hit).  Even with the Italians stacking Tuscany, Austria has enough to win it without it being contested.  As far as Venice retreating, there isn’t much to retreat from there anyway on I1.  Even if you only push as far as Tuscany, you have limited the Italians to 7 IPCs.  Building another transport or two also gets infantry to Rome faster.

I will typically sink the UKs purchases on G2, so the UK is continuously spending its money on just fleet and once the German ships are in the UK sea zones, they no longer have to roll for mines.  Buying navy with AH is an option I haven’t really played around much with yet, but it has merit since the Allies can’t afford to build ships in the Med.

Texas, back on the first page of this thread I kinda started the whole France can keep their income steady, and increase it if they want to as the CP take their European lands by French control of Portugal, African lands, and various neutrals (the others have been backing that up w/their own experiences). The UK can easily add to their own income by spending heavily in India the first 3 turns, and gaining the neutral/Turk lands (and containing Africa).

Now the Russians may not be tipped off yet that the CP are going hard Paris, because Germany hasn’t taken its first turn yet, but they generally don’t fight for Poland in our games (just gets their units killed), and only activate Romania (if Austria didn’t attack it A1). The Russians have adopted a move everything they can to the Ukraine (about 40 units), and retreat if the CP are gunning for them. On R2 the Russians will see that the CP are going west, and adapt accordingly. BTW our Russians always hit the Turk navy R1 or R2, and live with what ever results. They can generally at least remove one cruiser for someone else to finish them off.

This leaves the Austrians to deal with a massive Russian army that moves everything to Ukraine R1 (40+ units). Don’t get me wrong, the Austrian can hold back the Russian (have even seen them gain an advantage if the Russians attack), but they aren’t going to be threatening Rome with just their starting forces adjacent to Venice. The Italians know this, and start building transports to make landing in the Balkans or later landings on the French Med coast to help out Paris. The French have also activated Albania for the Italians on F1 in nearly every game so far, so the Italians already have a starting force in the Balkans to use in their first turn.

When the Germans go hard to Paris, the French will see it on their first turn and do mostly inf buys and pull back (the French will have about the same number of total units as the Germans in the first German attack on Paris, somewhere around 50 I think). They are tipped off because the Germans will need to pull back from the Russian front (move those units back to Berlin, and add G1 purchases) to have the strength to capture Paris (second assault). The French don’t need any help from UK early on because Paris is so far away from Berlin. The French can keep their income steady at 25- 30 IPCs (or more) all the way until Paris is contested depending on what they take. The Germans can assault Paris on the 5th turn, but need their G1 buys (and the units they pulled from the Russian front) to hit Paris again on G6. The French get to add units in between (when Paris is contested), and they will have somewhere near 25ish IPCs at that time (because of their other holdings). By this time the French/UK/Italy will have removed any CP navy in the Med, and will be full steam ahead to the Atlantic (Italy probably stays in the Med in case Austria gets cocky, but the US has war ships for defense in the Atlantic). The Western allies don’t need to attack the German fleet, because they aren’t landing in German territories at this time, they’re going for French coastal territories (probably Brest to bridge starting UK units from Wales). It doesn’t mater what the Germans have bought for navy (like you said the Germans aren’t going to take London), because they would have to attack a combined 3 power navy w/multiple BBs in UK mined sz’s, and the UK will be buying only navy for sz 7 from turn 4 on. If they have to they will lay out a build for sacrifice, and would be happy to have the Germans attack them with their friends near by for a counter double/tipple attack on a weakened German navy.

What we have seen in our games is UK spending heavily in India the first few turns (ignoring London) to either get units to Russia if its a kill Russia first (or force Rus Rev gave), or to take out the Turks if the CP are going hard to the west. The UK doesn’t attempt to rebuild the home fleet early on. The Germans sometimes add to their fleet, but it doesn’t really make much difference to the western front because the German fleet has to move though the UK mined sz’s to make landings anywhere near the western front (we have seen them lose transports to mines in several games). Early in games the allies have moved nearly all navy to the Med to double/triple hit any CP navy (stopping when their BBs are on their side to preserve them), then start reorganizing their fleets towards the Atlantic to get units from England to the French coast in turn 4 -6.

Texas, I’m not as critical as the others are about the games you’ve played, but I do question heavy German naval builds starting G1 (we have gone that route as well, didn’t end good though). I think the Germans can afford to build some navy once they get the ground units built and are heading in the right direction. Maybe start filtering in some early naval builds for the Germans to force a reaction from the allies (then a heavy turn 3 naval build?), but the naval dominance the allies enjoy is really hard to over come (you would need great dice IMO).  I think your allied players need to play a bit more defensive, because if the allies are aggressive in the beginning and try to contest territories they generally just lose many units to a much stronger CP force, that will cause their collapse. If the French & Russians pull back and be more patient (see the full CP plan, and wait for help), and force the CP to make attacks on well defended land (even if its all the way back to their capital), then they are much harder to take down. The allies need to be more selective in their battles. This along with the UK goes heavy India the first 3 turns to help the battles to the east is a very powerful tool (you guys should try it out to see for your selves).

I’m not throwing the towel in on the CP as others have done either. This is a strange game though in the respect it is generally the axis (CP) that have a straight forward approach, and the Allies that have a longer learning curve. This game is defiantly the opposite LOL.  In our next game as the CP we know we have to be more focused, and will be looking at limiting what I though were a couple minor mistakes. It is also much easier for the allies to recover from mistakes then the CP IMO. Good gaming Texas!!  It seems right for someone from Texas to be a hold out, its kinda like the Alamo all over again LOL

For my next game as the CP I have considered letting the Ottomans take Romania and then setting aside 6 IPCs as Austria to continually send 2 infantry a turn toward Trans-Jordan. They would arrive by around turn 6 which would hopefully give the Ottomans an increasing defensive wall against Egypt which might let the Ottoman’s shift their focus more toward India.

@zanetheinsane:

For my next game as the CP I have considered letting the Ottomans take Romania and then setting aside 6 IPCs as Austria to continually send 2 infantry a turn toward Trans-Jordan. They would arrive by around turn 6 which would hopefully give the Ottomans an increasing defensive wall against Egypt which might let the Ottoman’s shift their focus more toward India.

Not a bad idea but Austria is usually stressed as it is fighting Italy and Russia.

@Texas:

@Tavenier:

Taking Tuscany doesn’t achieve much. You have a chance of losing one unit and after that the Rome garrison is moving to Tuscany anyway. Only time I do those kind of small attacks is to let the opponent move their units the ‘wrong’ way. If that sz bordered Naples, that would have been a good choice, but Tuscany is pointless.

It doesn’t achieve much, but it doesn’t cost much either.  It also reduces the amount of spaces between Vienna and Rome by 1.

@Tavenier:

Foring Britain to reinforce Scortland is not worth it. They have troops there anyway and if two German units land there (survivng mines) they are easy meat for the British homeguard.

And building a BB every turn with Germany leaves you around 30. The same (or less) as France. Then there is Russia and Italy.

…and the CPs have Austria and the Ottomans, which both make more than Russia and Italy.

The German navy isn’t for landing in the UK, it for preventing the UK from landing in France.  As far as the argument for a German navy, take a look at this.  At the start, the respective alliances have the following incomes:  CP - 77, Allies - 113.

If the CPs control the sea, you cut off 50 of the Allies IPCs, shifting that to CP - 77, Allies - 63.  Now there is a cost by the CPs to maintain the sea advantage and the UK can build in India, but that is too far away from the western front to matter.  The CPs have no chance if you don’t prevent the UK and US from landing.  I think I have said that a time or two so far.

@Tavenier:

And every strategy Germany comes up with is seen five turns before Paris is reached. So if Germany goes all Russia, everybody sees that before it is too late. Same goes for every other strategy.

No point in going all Russia.  Paris/Rome is the easiest victory condition to meet.

Too Lazy to quote properly. Sorry :p

Now your math is extremely off.

The British then will make a navy because the Germans are. The German incom is gone. The British already started with a larger navy and have the French navy so now Germany has less income then France to fight them.  This would make the allies very happy. Germany going all naval. You just cancelled half of the Centrals income how are you going to win!!!

Also the British don’t need to send troops to France they can build troops in India.

If Germany builds navy it will be so it can keep its shores safe in the mines not to be a threatening force that can take on the other navys in an offensive role.

@italiansarecoming:

Now your math is extremely off.

The British then will make a navy because the Germans are. The German incom is gone. The British already started with a larger navy and have the French navy so now Germany has less income then France to fight them.  This would make the allies very happy. Germany going all naval. You just cancelled half of the Centrals income how are you going to win!!!

Also the British don’t need to send troops to France they can build troops in India.

If Germany builds navy it will be so it can keep its shores safe in the mines not to be a threatening force that can take on the other navys in an offensive role.

I am not saying go all navy, building one battleship is 25% of Germany’s income (and that isn’t for the entire game, it’s based on need).  Think of the economics of it.  One battleship cost the Germans 12 IPC.  The cost to the British to respond is more than 12 as they have to also build warships to match the German buys.  The alternative is to let the British land 30+ IPCs of units in Europe every turn.  Germany has no chance of competing with ~60 IPCs of units between the British and French.  If you can’t keep the British at bay, you won’t last until the Austrians are able to assist in southern France.

@WILD:

Texas, back on the first page of this thread I kinda started the whole France can keep their income steady, and increase it if they want to as the CP take their European lands by French control of Portugal, African lands, and various neutrals (the others have been backing that up w/their own experiences). The UK can easily add to their own income by spending heavily in India the first 3 turns, and gaining the neutral/Turk lands (and containing Africa).

Now the Russians may not be tipped off yet that the CP are going hard Paris, because Germany hasn’t taken its first turn yet, but they generally don’t fight for Poland in our games (just gets their units killed), and only activate Romania (if Austria didn’t attack it A1). The Russians have adopted a move everything they can to the Ukraine (about 40 units), and retreat if the CP are gunning for them. On R2 the Russians will see that the CP are going west, and adapt accordingly. BTW our Russians always hit the Turk navy R1 or R2, and live with what ever results. They can generally at least remove one cruiser for someone else to finish them off.

This leaves the Austrians to deal with a massive Russian army that moves everything to Ukraine R1 (40+ units). Don’t get me wrong, the Austrian can hold back the Russian (have even seen them gain an advantage if the Russians attack), but they aren’t going to be threatening Rome with just their starting forces adjacent to Venice. The Italians know this, and start building transports to make landing in the Balkans or later landings on the French Med coast to help out Paris. The French have also activated Albania for the Italians on F1 in nearly every game so far, so the Italians already have a starting force in the Balkans to use in their first turn.

When the Germans go hard to Paris, the French will see it on their first turn and do mostly inf buys and pull back (the French will have about the same number of total units as the Germans in the first German attack on Paris, somewhere around 50 I think). They are tipped off because the Germans will need to pull back from the Russian front (move those units back to Berlin, and add G1 purchases) to have the strength to capture Paris (second assault). The French don’t need any help from UK early on because Paris is so far away from Berlin. The French can keep their income steady at 25- 30 IPCs (or more) all the way until Paris is contested depending on what they take. The Germans can assault Paris on the 5th turn, but need their G1 buys (and the units they pulled from the Russian front) to hit Paris again on G6. The French get to add units in between (when Paris is contested), and they will have somewhere near 25ish IPCs at that time (because of their other holdings). By this time the French/UK/Italy will have removed any CP navy in the Med, and will be full steam ahead to the Atlantic (Italy probably stays in the Med in case Austria gets cocky, but the US has war ships for defense in the Atlantic). The Western allies don’t need to attack the German fleet, because they aren’t landing in German territories at this time, they’re going for French coastal territories (probably Brest to bridge starting UK units from Wales). It doesn’t mater what the Germans have bought for navy (like you said the Germans aren’t going to take London), because they would have to attack a combined 3 power navy w/multiple BBs in UK mined sz’s, and the UK will be buying only navy for sz 7 from turn 4 on. If they have to they will lay out a build for sacrifice, and would be happy to have the Germans attack them with their friends near by for a counter double/tipple attack on a weakened German navy.

What we have seen in our games is UK spending heavily in India the first few turns (ignoring London) to either get units to Russia if its a kill Russia first (or force Rus Rev gave), or to take out the Turks if the CP are going hard to the west. The UK doesn’t attempt to rebuild the home fleet early on. The Germans sometimes add to their fleet, but it doesn’t really make much difference to the western front because the German fleet has to move though the UK mined sz’s to make landings anywhere near the western front (we have seen them lose transports to mines in several games). Early in games the allies have moved nearly all navy to the Med to double/triple hit any CP navy (stopping when their BBs are on their side to preserve them), then start reorganizing their fleets towards the Atlantic to get units from England to the French coast in turn 4 -6.

Texas, I’m not as critical as the others are about the games you’ve played, but I do question heavy German naval builds starting G1 (we have gone that route as well, didn’t end good though). I think the Germans can afford to build some navy once they get the ground units built and are heading in the right direction. Maybe start filtering in some early naval builds for the Germans to force a reaction from the allies (then a heavy turn 3 naval build?), but the naval dominance the allies enjoy is really hard to over come (you would need great dice IMO).  I think your allied players need to play a bit more defensive, because if the allies are aggressive in the beginning and try to contest territories they generally just lose many units to a much stronger CP force, that will cause their collapse. If the French & Russians pull back and be more patient (see the full CP plan, and wait for help), and force the CP to make attacks on well defended land (even if its all the way back to their capital), then they are much harder to take down. The allies need to be more selective in their battles. This along with the UK goes heavy India the first 3 turns to help the battles to the east is a very powerful tool (you guys should try it out to see for your selves).

I’m not throwing the towel in on the CP as others have done either. This is a strange game though in the respect it is generally the axis (CP) that have a straight forward approach, and the Allies that have a longer learning curve. This game is defiantly the opposite LOL.  In our next game as the CP we know we have to be more focused, and will be looking at limiting what I though were a couple minor mistakes. It is also much easier for the allies to recover from mistakes then the CP IMO. Good gaming Texas!!  It seems right for someone from Texas to be a hold out, its kinda like the Alamo all over again LOL

Thanks for the response, what happens if the Germans don’t attack Paris with a 50 vs 50 stack and hold just outside and wait for reinforcements or bait the French into attacking?  The Germans are gong to lose half their units on an attack like that and I agree, the Germans have no chance of winning it.  What is France’s income at about that time?  I think that basic plan is impossible to win as you would be losing more troops than you are reinforcing with.  I think a mistake people are making with the CPs are they are being too aggressive.  What do the Russians typically do in your games after the Germans take Poland, but they aren’t going full force towards Russia (and Austria isn’t going to attack a 40-man stack either)?  Couldn’t the Germans walk up the coast while the Russians hunker down.  At some point they will have to spread out a bit to prevent the loss of all their territory.  I agree with the learning curve though.  The way it is set up makes it look like you have to play it the same way you play WWII and be ultra aggressive with the CPs when you have to use a restrained aggressiveness.  Funny thing is that I am not from Texas, its a play on the card game Texas Hold’em.

@Texas:

Thanks for the response, what happens if the Germans don’t attack Paris with a 50 vs 50 stack and hold just outside and …. bait the French into attacking?Â

Don’t count on the other player to throw the game away for your strat to be good.

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

@Texas:

Thanks for the response, what happens if the Germans don’t attack Paris with a 50 vs 50 stack and hold just outside and …. bait the French into attacking?�

Don’t count on the other player to throw the game away for your strat to be good.

Don’t count on which player to throw the game and what strat are you referring to?

@Texas:

Thanks for the response, what happens if the Germans don’t attack Paris with a 50 vs 50 stack and hold just outside and …. bait the French into attacking?�

That would be awesome if the French attacked, but very unlikely (they have bought mostly inf if you’re gunning for Paris). If you delay for a turn, you also play into their hands, because the UK/Italians are already starting to arrive on the French beaches, and would be defending Paris on your first attack. The next game as Germany I plan on keeping a better supply of reinforcements coming (last game some new units went to help against Russia). I also plan on having a small 10+ unit Austrian force w/me to head off some of the allied landings.  I will again beef up the German navy G3, G4 to challenge what they can bring over from England (especially if they build mostly India for a while).

One game (going hard Paris) I had a brain fart around turn 3 or 4 and tried to land some Germans in Karelia to put some pressure on Russia (through the Baltic). I killed the Russia BB, and the only ship that hit his mines was my transport LOL. Needless to say I was PO’ed, but what was worse was I put my self out of position and allowed the UK to drop transports off England (he had built mostly India the first 3 turns).  I had a decent size navy at the time, and they would have built navy, but it would have been mostly warships, and fewer transports. I had a good chance to keep the waters clear, or make him fight to cross the Channel, but messed it up. By time I engaged him it was too late, the damage was done. Next time I will not leave the North Sea, live and learn. The Italians & US would still have saved Paris though by landings in Marseilles/Bordeaux. The UK could build navy in sz8 to block the German fleet out, and allow the US to land troops in Bordeaux turn 5, or the US/Italians come up together through the Med from Marseilles (takes longer). It would be next to impossible for the German fleet to cut off the Med route.

@Texas:

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

@Texas:

Thanks for the response, what happens if the Germans don’t attack Paris with a 50 vs 50 stack and hold just outside and …. bait the French into attacking?�Â

Don’t count on the other player to throw the game away for your strat to be good.

Don’t count on which player to throw the game and what strat are you referring to?

Exactly what I quoted. If you “bait” the French into attacking in the situation you describe, you did not do a good move, they did an awful one.

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

@Texas:

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

@Texas:

Thanks for the response, what happens if the Germans don’t attack Paris with a 50 vs 50 stack and hold just outside and …. bait the French into attacking?��

Don’t count on the other player to throw the game away for your strat to be good.

Don’t count on which player to throw the game and what strat are you referring to?

Exactly what I quoted. If you “bait” the French into attacking in the situation you describe, you did not do a good move, they did an awful one.

Yeah in the scenario I described the French built mostly inf, so there is no way they would be attacking any time soon (maybe turn 7ish). If you stall though, they would just continue to add to their home guard, but probably switch to art/ftr/tank builds as the other allies start landing on the beaches turn 4-6 to take over the defensive duties of Paris (allowing the French to go offensive). If you don’t contest Paris as soon as you can (turn 4 or 5) and eventually take it, the French will have 25+ IPC to spend each turn, and with the other allies defending Paris now your offensive is now in retreat IMO, because your reinforcements can’t match them. You’re not going to bait the French into attacking you any time soon if you stall, but you will eventually give them the upper hand IMO and they will push you back. Your window for Paris is early, but then you need to figure out how to defend Paris if you indeed take it, so you can keep it long enough to get the 2nd allied capital for the win. This means that Austria has to be doing well vs Russia, or Italy to attempt that second capital, and maybe be in a position to add to the defense of Paris (that’s why you clear Switzerland to allow the Austrians a faster path to Paris).

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

@Texas:

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

@Texas:

Thanks for the response, what happens if the Germans don’t attack Paris with a 50 vs 50 stack and hold just outside and …. bait the French into attacking?��

Don’t count on the other player to throw the game away for your strat to be good.

Don’t count on which player to throw the game and what strat are you referring to?

Exactly what I quoted. If you “bait” the French into attacking in the situation you describe, you did not do a good move, they did an awful one.

Well, you quoted out of context as I wasn’t proposing that as a strat.  I was asking what the French player does when the German player doesn’t take the bait and attack Paris.  It is a terrible move for the Germans to take the bait in that situation as well.

How would France have 25+ a turn when they turtled up in Paris and allowed the Germans to take all their European territory.  The math isn’t adding up for me.  Wouldn’t they just have Paris, Portugal, and some territories in Africa?  I would think 15-18 would be the max they would have at that point.

@Texas:

How would France have 25+ a turn when they turtled up in Paris and allowed the Germans to take all their European territory.  The math isn’t adding up for me.  Wouldn’t they just have Paris, Portugal, and some territories in Africa?  I would think 15-18 would be the max they would have at that point.

Spain, Morocco.

The thing is they will not be as big if Germany attacks them first instead of Russia.
BUT…Then Russia will be big lol
OR…Austria goes all in for Russia, now Germany must fight both French and Italy for 6 turns then USA too!

The Axis (CP) problems in 1914 do not exist in other A&A games because of long range units (aircraft and tanks) and more factories + ability to make more factories.
All land units moving 1, no real air game and only 1 factory per nation cripples the axis (CP) whereas it does not make much difference for the Allies, mainly because UK and USA build their units and load them onto transports the very next turn, which have the same movement as other A&A games.

@Texas:

How would France have 25+ a turn when they turtled up in Paris and allowed the Germans to take all their European territory.  The math isn’t adding up for me.  Wouldn’t they just have Paris, Portugal, and some territories in Africa?  I would think 15-18 would be the max they would have at that point.

In our games France usually has Spain, Portugal, Spanish Morocco, Togoland, Kamerun, and sometimes Southwest Africa. That is +10. They also have +6 IPCs worth of territories in Africa. (We’re assuming by around turn 4-5 that the Germans in Africa have been neutralized). So even if they just has Paris, France would make about 21-22 IPCs a turn.