DEI Question

Crete is a separate Pro-Allies neutral territory.

@techroll42:

Crete is a separate Pro-Allies neutral territory.

Correct, and Crete is part of Greece.

So if Crete is activated does it activate Greece too?  And if greece is attacked, does Crete become allied?

@Vance:

Former Dutch colonies are allies but they have no government so they are up for grabs (Anarchy!).  Whoever can get a land unit (not AA) there to establish a local government takes control.

Not “whoever”, just UK or ANZAC.  They are the only powers allowed to take control of Dutch territories peacefully, by special agreement with the Dutch government in exile.

@Vance:

So if Crete is activated does it activate Greece too?  And if greece is attacked, does Crete become allied?

No.  There are no “countries” in the game - only powers.  Neutral territories are all treated independently.  The only exception is Mongolia, and then only for the purposes of the Soviet-Japanese Nonaggression Pact.

OK so that would explain why US can’t land planes on Dutch colonies or take them over unless they have first been taken by an axis power (Japan).  It is a special arrangement between Belgium (in exile) and UK/ANZAC that allows them to land planes in the former colonies or to take possession.  A bit murky but becoming clearer.  Thanks.

The US can move units of any kind into Dutch territories, as long as it’s no longer neutral.  It just can’t take control of them.  (By the way, it’s Holland, not Belgium.)

The important concept to understand is that the Dutch territories are treated in almost every way as territories belonging to a power whose capital is held by the enemy.  The only exception to this is that UK and ANZAC can take control of them while they are are still Dutch by moving in a land unit.

Well yes, but West Germany is a part of Germany…  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I don’t think it matters–it’s all for game purposes.

@kcdzim:

@Spendo02:

What ruleset are people looking at that states Anzac/UK can land aircraft on the DEI without taking control of them?

I’m trying to determine of Japan can accomplish the same thing.

The game mechanic intrinsic in all rule sets is that a plane belonging to a power that is not neutral is always free to land those planes on friendly territories (assuming they started the turn under friendly control) or carriers; hence the UK and Anzac are free to use Dutch territories as landing spaces as the Dutch territories begin the game friendly to the Allied Nations.  The only difference in how Dutch territories behave is that the UK and Anzac can take control of them by noncombat moving a land unit to them.  Otherwise they act exactly the same as any other friendly territory.

Japan can’t land there.  Japan and the Dutch aren’t friendly, even if Japan hasn’t declared war on UK/ANZAC.

while searching for the answer to this question I found some conflicting results

in a pac 1940 post krieghound said you had to be at war to land on dutch islands

however kc is a rule deputy and says you can

did this change from oob?

one can land uk or anzac air units on dutch controlled territories?

I don’t know what post you’re referring to but he’s probably talking about US. US is a neutral power and they are limited in their movements until they enter the war (either because they got dragged into it or because they declared war). They can’t move into UK/Anzac/French/USSR terr while they’re neutral and this also applies to the DEI. Once US is in a state of war, they’re officially an allied country and can noncombat move into any allied territory and use any airbase/navalbase. The only caveat is that they can’t use USSR terr to land in unless japan and ussr are actually at war.

I’m not sure if there was anything conflicting between what Krieg and I said.

You must be at war to move into a friendly territory.  The Dutch territories are friendly to the Allies. Therefore, an Allied power must be at war to land a plane on a Dutch territory.

The UK and Anzac both start the game at war (with Germany, even on the Pac board alone) and therefore may immediately land planes in Dutch territories, even if not yet at war with Japan.  The US can land a plane or unit on the DEI as soon as they’re at war with any axis power.  Russia may land a plane or unit there as soon as they are at war with Japan, specifically.

It’s important to note that only Russia has split theater neutrality conditions.

slightly off topic perhaps but related…

if euroaxis attack greece for example (or any other pro-allied neutral) but do NOT take it and there are still friendly neutral inf left over, can allied powers at war land air there even though greece is still “neutral”

i think i remember hearing about this and thought i’d ask

@guy:

slightly off topic perhaps but related…

if euroaxis attack greece for example (or any other pro-allied neutral) but do NOT take it and there are still friendly neutral inf left over, can allied powers at war land air there even though greece is still “neutral”

i think i remember hearing about this and thought i’d ask

Greece is no longer neutral once it’s attacked; it’s friendly.  The allies can land units there, and the first power to noncom a land unit there will take control of it (and the remaining standing army).

Once any neutral is attacked, they become a friendly territory to the opposing side of the attacker (and no longer neutral).

thanx for clearing that up for me

I thought they had to be at war with japan too

I see the logic now that uk and dutch are at war with germany makes them buddies