Sealion Alpha#2 how/when and is it worth it?

an effective sealion can really only be mounted G3.

If UK builds 2 fighters you should get a big sealion boner because they won’t have enough fodder to defend against your landing.

G1 build 1 CV 2 trns (or 1 ss or 1 DD to mix it up)
Make sure you start to get equipment in position
G2 finish off the british navy. End your turn with your navy in sz112 and the Luftwaffe and enough troops to load all your transports in West Germany. Build 9 (or 8 or 7 situation depending) transports G2
G3 land with everything you’ve got. This depends on how many UK fighters made it back from the med but if UK raided sz97 then you should be set up very nicely for sealion.

After that, those 10 transports (and all that British money) will come in very handy against Russia.

P.S. This is a rough sketch of a simple G3 sealion. I await the wave of condescending err… constructive criticism.

@Canuck12:

an effective sealion can really only be mounted G3.

If UK builds 2 fighters you should get a big sealion boner because they won’t have enough fodder to defend against your landing.

G1 build 1 CV 2 trns (or 1 ss or 1 DD to mix it up)
Make sure you start to get equipment in position
G2 finish off the british navy. End your turn with your navy in sz112 and the Luftwaffe and enough troops to load all your transports in West Germany. Build 9 (or 8 or 7 situation depending) transports G2
G3 land with everything you’ve got. This depends on how many UK fighters made it back from the med but if UK raided sz97 then you should be set up very nicely for sealion.

After that, those 10 transports (and all that British money) will come in very handy against Russia.

P.S. This is a rough sketch of a simple G3 sealion. I await the wave of condescending err… constructive criticism.

Keep in mind that UK might just strike back with all their remaining fleet if G1 goes not too well. Bye bye Sealion in that case  :-D

G1 would have to go REALLY badly for the UK to hit back with anything meaningful. Remember, you’re going to have at least a loaded carrier, cruiser, battleship (maybe tipped) 3 planes to scramble AND whatever else you built g1 (subs destroyer etc.) That’s at worst 24 pips and more likely 30. UK can only get 3 fighters (if they didnt loose any in a scramble) and whatever is left, which is likely only a battle ship and a couple of destroyers, (in a bad case) this with 3 planes would give them 17.

Bye Bye Brits.

What you said earlier about the transports being helpful for russia, if italy can drop and blitz men into the caucuses and take and control Stalingrad(which is usually un protected), germany can get tank and mech. infantry into position in poland and blitz into leningrad with the assistance of infantry drops and Luftwaffe cover. If italy controls cairo, this means axis control 8 VCs thus giving them victory if they can hold it. I played a game a while back were i did such and it seemed to work out fine. Only difference was england was left unprotected so i only had two transports to drop on leningrad with.

@Canuck12:

G1 would have to go REALLY badly for the UK to hit back with anything meaningful. Remember, you’re going to have at least a loaded carrier, cruiser, battleship (maybe tipped) 3 planes to scramble AND whatever else you built g1 (subs destroyer etc.) That’s at worst 24 pips and more likely 30. UK can only get 3 fighters (if they didnt loose any in a scramble) and whatever is left, which is likely only a battle ship and a couple of destroyers, (in a bad case) this with 3 planes would give them 17.

Bye Bye Brits.

You mean Au revoir, Brits ;)

Define really badly. Germany not being able to kill off the UK battlship is an important part, Germany also has to lose a few pieces, or at least have a damaged battleship.

A tipped UK battleship is no problem, as it will be repaired before attacking. if, on the other hand, the german battlship is tipped, then a counterattack might be worth the risk. Personally i dont mind losing my UK fleet if it wipes out the german fleet as well. Getting those sealions of the english beach is a priority.

I assumed a G1 buy of an AC and some transports (without transports there is no imminent sealion threat hence no urgent need for a counter attack), and if Germany did a perfect clean up turn 1 then there is no striking back naturally.
UK’s actions will always depend on the succes/failure of the german attacks. Well, mine will…

I didn’t count in any new scrambling rules, though. (do alpha rules also apply for Europe?)

They do.

Darn, guess i’ll have to go study all these extra rules

I don’t understand the point of building a carrier, if your barges are set in 113 (not reachable by british planes) and the English fleet has been sunk. Can someone please explain?

There would still be a DD from 109, probably the CA in 91, and 4 fht - 5 if the fht in Gib is brought in.

Well these ships cannot cross the danish straight, and would be sunk, by the planes regardless. The carrier has no attack value, why not replace it by some strategic bombers?

Then your BB and CA (if you hadn’t already lost the CA) in sz112 could be destroyed.  Without those ships, it would be difficult to make Sealion work, as you would need to have enough at sea to survive a scamble when you amphibiously land, and still have enough units to take London.

The carrier will bring air cover to the baltic fleet, sure you can fly planes over and attack but they cant really defend the baltic fleet at all (at least in the original rules). Thats the only incentive to purchase a carrier G1, to protect the german warships.

I like the CV because I can do fighter swaps out at sea in later turns.  That counts for alot.

Well I am discussing alpha+2. Are you implying planes to attack barges alone?

plus, I usually “like” it when the allies use their planes to attack the ships as they tend to loose a couple, therefore weakening their London defences.

My call is G1: 2 strategic and 1 tank.
G2: 8 barges+ tactical (if I managed to take Bordeaux, France, Finland and Yugoslavia, in G1).

Which allow me to send the following (assuming a few fighters are lost sinking the fleet, which I do over 2 turns):
9 tanks
9 infantries
3 strategic bombers
2 fighters

which gives me, if the Enlgish player has 20 infantries and 5 fighters, about 90% chance of winning.

London can have a minimum of 24 infantry, 1 tank and 5 fht.  More if I can bring the inf and art from Que, and more still if I pull planes from the Med.  Your chances with what you bought against the minimum London defense is less than 2%.

I, personally, have been finding lately that sealion is a waste of resources for Germany with the new Alpha 2 plus rules.

I’m sure you’ve expressed this elsewhere already but in the interest of informing this thread: Do you believe Sealion is still a viable option Jim?

Not if defended against properly.  If you can survive with most planes and all tanks, I’d do it, but UK would have to be half-assed defended.

If england recalls all available air craft, infantry, and warships from the african and atlantic theaters than italy will flourish and germany will focus on russia. In my opinion, a properly done sea lion will not give the axis the Victory cities they require on a good time table that has the americans in mind. That being said, if one wishes to sea-lion, they will need to be prepared for a war of attrition on the western coast of europe. And defending europe and executing a russian attack is not possible with the German economy. Thus leading to my assumption that the axis’ only plausible choice is a russian attack on turn two. Turn one consisting of destruction of the english navy, conquest of france, and movement of troops to eastern front.