USSR Invasion

@Koningstiger:

@Bodeacious:

Major IC won’t fit in Poland.

I’m not convinced about the need to build a major IC in Norway, especially if you have all those transports.

I’d rather build my stuff in Romania, where they can more easily help defend Italy and attack the most valuable Soviet territories.

Why not? Poland is worth 3 points, if I’m not mistaken…

As for the transports, AFAIK Germany only starts out with one.

Checked it. You are right. poland is indeed only worth two IPCs and hence a major IC indeed won’t fit. Well, just place it in Slovakia/Hungary then. The theory still holds true.

@Koningstiger:

The Germans cannot afford to lose Norway this early in the game against the Russians (German NO’s, 2 of which involve control of Norway, USSR NO’s, which would give them 3 additional IPCs for each original German controlled territory, so 3 for Finland and 3 for Norway.

Finland is not an originally controlled German territory. Originally controlled territories are those that have the country roundels printed on the map.

And dont forget the USSR NO requires that they control all their original territories as well.  Having Norway doesn’t matter if the germans even have bessarabia or east Poland.

Wild Bill,

sometimes I get my stack of tanks and mech inf close to Moscow and then they’re not enough.  As my lines have stretched out Russia fell back and built strength.

Them 10, 15 units of mine can’t attack Moscow.  They can however capture another capital, India.  At least they can turtle India back into itself when suddenly a country with an income of 16 or less if Japan has been doing its job has two enemies.

What a few turns earlier might have been a Japanese attack on India that failed has become an attack against an India weakened by the Germans or oddly enough a German attack.

Oddly enough no Russian player has ever chased my German tanks to India.  If they do I would slow them by dropping a mech infantry behind me.  Sometimes Germany has an empty territory in front of them and really could get the jump on the Russians.

If Russia attacks Germany fine.  They have a long march from Russia back towards Berlin.  It takes Germany 2 turns, two squares, to recover 50 pointsish of units on the eastern front.  Plus it has fallen back towards its supply base getting stronger that way also while Russia suddenly is further from the complexes building their new units.

I rambled, I’m sorry

I have thought last night of a new plan to take down Russia.

G1: buy 1 minor IC, place it on Romania and 1 AC to protect the Baltic fleet (29 IPC)

G2: buy upgrade for the Romanian IC (you can also wait until G2) and 3 transports for it, placing them on SZ100. Also buy 1-2 transports for the Baltic. Spend the rest on infantry/art.

G3: buy 1 AC for SZ100 and the rest all inf/art/armor.

Declare war on Russia and strike everywhere:

• The fleet on SZ100 can hit Rostov, Ukraine and Caucasus, all 2 IPC territories and forcing Russia to take them back or see its production drop.
• The fleet on SZ113 will probably have to sink the Russian fleet on SZ112 (Russia should have moved it there to block an amphibious assault on Novgorod) before attacking Leningrad.
• The border territories should be lightly defended (1 inf each) and hopefully Russia has pulled back any stack on Western Ukraine to Bryansk to deal with the Black Sea landings, allowing for German units to converge on Eastern Poland.
• G can also drop the 6 units right into the Caucasus, outproducing Russian production on Volvograd and threatening to take it or to move into Persia.

This requires a substantial investment by G but completely opens Russia to multiple attacks. Then it is a matter of G choosing which route to take: the northern one, focusing on taking Leningrad while harassing the Russians on Rostov/Ukraine/Caucasus with landings and slowly bleeding them; or the southern route, going through Ukraine and to Bryansk to directly threaten Moscow and cutoff Volvograd.

@Hobbes:

@Koningstiger:

The Germans cannot afford to lose Norway this early in the game against the Russians (German NO’s, 2 of which involve control of Norway, USSR NO’s, which would give them 3 additional IPCs for each original German controlled territory, so 3 for Finland and 3 for Norway.

Finland is not an originally controlled German territory. Originally controlled territories are those that have the country roundels printed on the map.

I stand corrected. Too much historical awareness can sometimes get in the way when playing A&A :-D

@Hobbes:

I have thought last night of a new plan to take down Russia.

G1: buy 1 minor IC, place it on Romania and 1 AC to protect the Baltic fleet (29 IPC)

G2: buy upgrade for the Romanian IC (you can also wait until G2) and 3 transports for it, placing them on SZ100. Also buy 1-2 transports for the Baltic. Spend the rest on infantry/art.

G3: buy 1 AC for SZ100 and the rest all inf/art/armor.

Declare war on Russia and strike everywhere:

• The fleet on SZ100 can hit Rostov, Ukraine and Caucasus, all 2 IPC territories and forcing Russia to take them back or see its production drop.
• The fleet on SZ113 will probably have to sink the Russian fleet on SZ112 (Russia should have moved it there to block an amphibious assault on Novgorod) before attacking Leningrad.
• The border territories should be lightly defended (1 inf each) and hopefully Russia has pulled back any stack on Western Ukraine to Bryansk to deal with the Black Sea landings, allowing for German units to converge on Eastern Poland.
• G can also drop the 6 units right into the Caucasus, outproducing Russian production on Volvograd and threatening to take it or to move into Persia.

This requires a substantial investment by G but completely opens Russia to multiple attacks. Then it is a matter of G choosing which route to take: the northern one, focusing on taking Leningrad while harassing the Russians on Rostov/Ukraine/Caucasus with landings and slowly bleeding them; or the southern route, going through Ukraine and to Bryansk to directly threaten Moscow and cutoff Volvograd.

Yesterday we played a game and my friend (playing Axis) build 3 Transports and a CV in SZ100. I told him before that maybe this would be a good idea. In the end it wasn´t a good idea b/c he failed to make further use of it. He took Leningrad , so to split his army was a huge mistake. Only way is a fast Blitzkrieg (right towards Moscow) ignoring Leningrad and Stalingrad. If the Russian player dont see what is coming you will take moscow, if he does than he has to abandon nearly all other territories to face this thread.

@Arminius:

@Hobbes:

I have thought last night of a new plan to take down Russia.

G1: buy 1 minor IC, place it on Romania and 1 AC to protect the Baltic fleet (29 IPC)

G2: buy upgrade for the Romanian IC (you can also wait until G2) and 3 transports for it, placing them on SZ100. Also buy 1-2 transports for the Baltic. Spend the rest on infantry/art.

G3: buy 1 AC for SZ100 and the rest all inf/art/armor.

Declare war on Russia and strike everywhere:

• The fleet on SZ100 can hit Rostov, Ukraine and Caucasus, all 2 IPC territories and forcing Russia to take them back or see its production drop.
• The fleet on SZ113 will probably have to sink the Russian fleet on SZ112 (Russia should have moved it there to block an amphibious assault on Novgorod) before attacking Leningrad.
• The border territories should be lightly defended (1 inf each) and hopefully Russia has pulled back any stack on Western Ukraine to Bryansk to deal with the Black Sea landings, allowing for German units to converge on Eastern Poland.
• G can also drop the 6 units right into the Caucasus, outproducing Russian production on Volvograd and threatening to take it or to move into Persia.

This requires a substantial investment by G but completely opens Russia to multiple attacks. Then it is a matter of G choosing which route to take: the northern one, focusing on taking Leningrad while harassing the Russians on Rostov/Ukraine/Caucasus with landings and slowly bleeding them; or the southern route, going through Ukraine and to Bryansk to directly threaten Moscow and cutoff Volvograd.

Yesterday we played a game and my friend (playing Axis) build 3 Transports and a CV in SZ100. I told him before that maybe this would be a good idea. In the end it wasn´t a good idea b/c he failed to make further use of it. He took Leningrad , so to split his army was a huge mistake. Only way is a fast Blitzkrieg (right towards Moscow) ignoring Leningrad and Stalingrad. If the Russian player dont see what is coming you will take moscow, if he does than he has to abandon nearly all other territories to face this thread.

When did he build the IC? G1 or later?

In our Game on G1 a Minor IC in Romania, told him that an Upgrade in G2 would Be best idea, but he build Units for France instead (at this Time imo unessecary).
He attacked on g3 and could only use the Full Transport capacity once. Wasted Money…
He also Moved to Leningrad… Next mistake imo

I think moving Straight to moscow with One Big Army is the Key.
While you gathering troops in a
defensive Position (2nd Stack) in East poland.
I think that can really work, but only if you surprise the russian,
so that He isnt able to Fall back (i assume that russian Player will Form 2-3 stacks in Second line) with enough troops to defend moscow,
or He is Forced to Attack the German Stack Rolling to moscow ;)

what the German Player wants is for Russia to try and stop your advance in all areas. if they do that then they’re too thin and are easy to open a hole in the communist lines. also i personally hit Leningrad first for 2 major reasons. 1 i want a factory that’s close to the front and that can cause major problems. 2  the bulk of the Russian army is focused there  and if destroyed severely cripples the soviet war effort.

Has anyone tried a Barbarossa on G2?

I was looking at this scenario. G buys 2 inf, 3 arm, attacks France and the UK navy and instead of attacking Yugoslavia sends everything to Poland. Then on G2 it invades the Baltic with everything that can reach it.

Regardless of what R buys on the first run the odds of a counterattack go against the Russians. A German stack of 15 inf, 4 art and 6 arm + 1 AA has 75% odds of winning if the Russians send everything in range (17 inf, 1 art + buy of 3 more, 2 arm, 2 mech, 2 ftr, 1 tac).

If the Germans buy 4/5 transports and infantry on G2  it can use them to bring the panzers from France (after they pulled back to Germany on G2) to Novgorod, then the odds of a successful attack on Novgorod (assuming Russia has decided to fight for it) are some 98% for Germany. It can take 6 inf and 6 arm to join the big army and the 5 inf from Finland that moved to occupy Karelia and Vyborg.

Leningrad then falls to the Axis by G3. How does that look?

I think the game is won or lost on the Eastern front. Germany’s only chance is to attack the USSR by G2 and be as aggressive as possible - it’s a race against the clock before the Americans come over. Turtling worked for me in my first game of Europe 40 a couple weeks ago as the allies. I was playing against an old school A&A gamer who’s been playing since the late 80’s. He attacked USSR on G3 and since he was taking his time and being very cautious, I pulled back and was able to build hordes of infantry in Leningrad and Moscow. He attacked Leningrad in G5, however, I proceeded to roll some of the worst dice in my life, and he wiped me out with few losses.  Even though he blew me away in Leningrad, he was too slow, as by that time he had to deal with the Americans in the west and couldn’t mount a serious attack on Moscow until G7 at the earliest.

@bantubob:

I think the game is won or lost on the Eastern front. Germany’s only chance is to attack the USSR by G2 and be as aggressive as possible - it’s a race against the clock before the Americans come over. Turtling worked for me in my first game of Europe 40 a couple weeks ago as the allies. I was playing against an old school A&A gamer who’s been playing since the late 80’s. He attacked USSR on G3 and since he was taking his time and being very cautious, I pulled back and was able to build hordes of infantry in Leningrad and Moscow. He attacked Leningrad in G5, however, I proceeded to roll some of the worst dice in my life, and he wiped me out with few losses.  Even though he blew me away in Leningrad, he was too slow, as by that time he had to deal with the Americans in the west and couldn’t mount a serious attack on Moscow until G7 at the earliest.

G may conquer Moscow on G5 with a G2 attack.

I just had another look and if the Germans buy a Major IC for Romania on G1 and buy 10 armor for it on G2 then they can have enough power to conquer the Caucasus, by not attacking Yugoslavia on G1 and taking East Poland on G2. The armor on Romania will be able to hit Belarus on G3 and even if the Russians have moved everything possible to Belarus (23 inf, 2 art, 3 arm, 4 mech, 2 ftr, 1 tac) then it’s 75% odds for the Germans if they bring their 20 inf, 5 art and 13 arm. With the use of the Luftwaffe the odds get even better but the Russians will have an AA.
With the stack moving to Belarus on G3 then it’s Smolensk/Bryansk on G4 and a massive battle on Russia on G5. If G keeps buying 10 arm each turn until G4 then it should conquer Moscow on G5.

@Hobbes:

@bantubob:

I think the game is won or lost on the Eastern front. Germany’s only chance is to attack the USSR by G2 and be as aggressive as possible - it’s a race against the clock before the Americans come over. Turtling worked for me in my first game of Europe 40 a couple weeks ago as the allies. I was playing against an old school A&A gamer who’s been playing since the late 80’s. He attacked USSR on G3 and since he was taking his time and being very cautious, I pulled back and was able to build hordes of infantry in Leningrad and Moscow. He attacked Leningrad in G5, however, I proceeded to roll some of the worst dice in my life, and he wiped me out with few losses.  Even though he blew me away in Leningrad, he was too slow, as by that time he had to deal with the Americans in the west and couldn’t mount a serious attack on Moscow until G7 at the earliest.

G may conquer Moscow on G5 with a G2 attack.

I just had another look and if the Germans buy a Major IC for Romania on G1 and buy 10 armor for it on G2 then they can have enough power to conquer the Caucasus, by not attacking Yugoslavia on G1 and taking East Poland on G2. The armor on Romania will be able to hit Belarus on G3 and even if the Russians have moved everything possible to Belarus (23 inf, 2 art, 3 arm, 4 mech, 2 ftr, 1 tac) then it’s 75% odds for the Germans if they bring their 20 inf, 5 art and 13 arm. With the use of the Luftwaffe the odds get even better but the Russians will have an AA.
With the stack moving to Belarus on G3 then it’s Smolensk/Bryansk on G4 and a massive battle on Russia on G5. If G keeps buying 10 arm each turn until G4 then it should conquer Moscow on G5.

If GERMANY is spending most of its income on 10 tanks, what is delaying the Anglo-American landings?

@calvinhobbesliker:

If GERMANY is spending most of its income on 10 tanks, what is delaying the Anglo-American landings?

It’s actually all of its income since 10 tanks cost 60 IPCs. Ideally that would be 10 tanks on G2 plus 10 more on G3 (if possible, depends on money saved from the G2 buy). All of those can reach Moscow on G5. The G4 buy really depends on what the UK has been up to and the US won’t be able to attack until US4.

@Hobbes:

@calvinhobbesliker:

If GERMANY is spending most of its income on 10 tanks, what is delaying the Anglo-American landings?

It’s actually all of its income since 10 tanks cost 60 IPCs. Ideally that would be 10 tanks on G2 plus 10 more on G3 (if possible, depends on money saved from the G2 buy). All of those can reach Moscow on G5. The G4 buy really depends on what the UK has been up to and the US won’t be able to attack until US4.

Can Germany still take Russia on turn 5 if the entire UK airforce lands on it on turn 4?

@mikecool70:

@Hobbes:

@calvinhobbesliker:

If GERMANY is spending most of its income on 10 tanks, what is delaying the Anglo-American landings?

It’s actually all of its income since 10 tanks cost 60 IPCs. Ideally that would be 10 tanks on G2 plus 10 more on G3 (if possible, depends on money saved from the G2 buy). All of those can reach Moscow on G5. The G4 buy really depends on what the UK has been up to and the US won’t be able to attack until US4.

Can Germany still take Russia on turn 5 if the entire UK airforce lands on it on turn 4?

It is impossible for the UK fighters to reach Moscow by turn 4 since the fighters can’t reach any of Russia’s territories while on the UK. They can reach only Caucasus through Gibraltar and Egypt on UK4. Unless the UK gives up the Taranto attack and send the fighter from Egypt and the tac from the carrier.

@Hobbes:

It is impossible for the UK fighters to reach Moscow by turn 4 since the fighters can’t reach any of Russia’s territories while on the UK. They can reach only Caucasus through Gibraltar and Egypt on UK4. Unless the UK gives up the Taranto attack and send the fighter from Egypt and the tac from the carrier.

Actually, if UK builds an airbase in Scotland on turn 1, then they can send all of their airforce to Russia by turn 4, even the one in Alexandria.  Alternatively, they can send all planes to the Med/Gibraltar on turn 1, land on Egypt or Trans-Jordan on turn 2 (perhaps after taking some casualties from destroying the Italian navy, then move to East Persia on turn 3, then Russia on turn 4.  I’m not saying either of these options is a good idea; just saying that it’s possible.

@mikecool70:

@Hobbes:

It is impossible for the UK fighters to reach Moscow by turn 4 since the fighters can’t reach any of Russia’s territories while on the UK. They can reach only Caucasus through Gibraltar and Egypt on UK4. Unless the UK gives up the Taranto attack and send the fighter from Egypt and the tac from the carrier.

Actually, if UK builds an airbase in Scotland on turn 1, then they can send all of their airforce to Russia by turn 4, even the one in Alexandria.  Alternatively, they can send all planes to the Med/Gibraltar on turn 1, land on Egypt or Trans-Jordan on turn 2 (perhaps after taking some casualties from destroying the Italian navy, then move to East Persia on turn 3, then Russia on turn 4.  I’m not saying either of these options is a good idea; just saying that it’s possible.

Airbase in Scotland cost you 15 IPC and is probarbly used only once ?
I don´t see further benefit for it than landing the 3 FIG from setup start.
IMO UK simply hasn´t got enough IPCs (especially for an early) to build Airbase in Scotland (or elsewhere). It also would only bring a benefit of 1 Round, Round 3 in Moscow while through med by UK4. But sure its the same like in the old AAeurope,
UK brings in all his Aircraft to Russia as soon as the Germans dosn´t threat the British Isle anymore. So it becomes harder (or nearly impossible) to win such a game with the germans. But remember also, that if the UK sends all FIG to Russian support, it would interfrere their ability to threaten the European coast for some turns.

Opps, forgot about buying an airbase and I also miscalculated the time for them to get to Moscow ;)

That definitely pushes the time for a conquest of Russia to G6 or later. I’m wondering if it is still worth it to buy the 10 armor on G2 and move the stack to Belarus on G3 and Bryansk on G4. That gives Germany the ability to take all those 2 IPC territories in the south.