Italy a bad design

@Chompers#2:

I played a lot of 1942 and that was mostly kill germany first vs kill russia first and then someone conceded with a few exceptions.  That is how I have tried to play my first game as the axis but I am starting to think that it is better to not even try to take Moscow.  The victory conditions for the axis is getting cities and it might be better to use Japan to conquer every city on the pacific side if america goes kill germany/italy first.  Then have Japan take all of Africa and send Germany to take lenigrad and stalingrad.  If Russia bought too much inf they will not be able to counter attack.  I have not added the cities up but at that point the axis would at least be pretty close.

So maybe that is something that I am missing.

Also not to confuse anyone I am Chompers#2, my old roomate who I have played 4 times is Chompers, who has made most of the post on here so far.

I was about to ask if you two were the same person, and then you answered my question. :-D

Axis need 14 out of 19 VC’s right? If they don’t take London or any North American territory, they need Moscow. If you forego Moscow, japan will need to take WUS and hold it for a turn.

Meant Romania so the fact is about the free infantry

Yeah, he makes up for lack of creativity in choosing forum names by a good bit of it on the game board  :-D

Okay I guess the axis does have to take Moscow then.  I didn’t count the cities because the game board is over my friends house.

Wow, 13 pages of stuff in 24 hours.

First off I would like to apologize to Plumsmugler.

I didn’t mean to go off on you, I hate when broken claims are made without much proof so early in the game’s release.

I am sorry. :-(

Next this is @ TexCapPrezJimmy-

Thank you for Reply #103. Your one post you summed up about 100 posts what you and Blitz where saying.

I see your point Blitz, of the setup things that need to be closely looked at.

Once ABattleMap is out for AAG40(Go Stoney!!!), people will build off others strats.

@jeffdestroyer:

if the USA goes all Europe, then Japan will take Honolulu and the rest of the Pacific and likely Cairo.

Germans DO NOT need Moscow in order for the Axis to achieve 14 VC.

Exactly - Axis victory is not a race to Moscow…need Victory Cities…could be from west US…or UK…or some other victory city…say, on the moon…

Anybody notice how the Axis get extra moolah for taking some of the harder to get VC’s…
Helps balance the IPC’s…

I simply can not move on…I am so bitter about losing my puny Italian fleet in the first turn…I mean my UK fleet…I mean the french army…I mean…aww, nevermind…I will just see what happens in the SECOND turn of the game after I am done bitching about the first turn!  Anybody need a tissue to dry up all there tears?  How about a good anti-depressant to help put your life in a better perspective.  It is a frigging game…

Ok, played through turn 1 last night. On G1 I sent 2 subs against the UK Carrier group, ended up losing both subs while only damaging the CV (the Tac landed in Gibralter).  On UK1 a combined fleet of 2 DDs, the Egyptian Fighter, the Tac and the damaged CV recreated Taranto taking out the SZ 95 fleet while losing a DD.  Italy struck back on her turn with her remaining air and sea units taking out the UK fleet losing a fighter.  The French fleet then wiped out the remaining Italians (damn bad rolling on Italy’s part).

At this point I think Italy just has to accept her fleet getting destroyed, and rely on either rebuilding (I’d go all subs first to make the Med dangerous for the Allies) or concentrating on air power to control the Med.  At the end of turn 1, Italy had S. France, Bulgaria, Taken back 1 French African Territory (I forget the name), Sudan and 1 other UK east Africa Territory and overrun Alexandria.  They are in decent shape in Africa and can likely take Egypt on I2.  The Allies control the Med right now, but have no way of reinforcing the land battle in Africa.  An Italian fleet may need to wait, or be all subs till the Med is cleared out with German help.

Italy is MEANT to be a challenge, even for the veteran A&A player…. I think its a good challenge too.

@ll:

Ok, played through turn 1 last night. On G1 I sent 2 subs against the UK Carrier group, ended up losing both subs while only damaging the CV (the Tac landed in Gibralter).  On UK1 a combined fleet of 2 DDs, the Egyptian Fighter, the Tac and the damaged CV recreated Taranto taking out the SZ 95 fleet while losing a DD.  Italy struck back on her turn with her remaining air and sea units taking out the UK fleet losing a fighter.  The French fleet then wiped out the remaining Italians (damn bad rolling on Italy’s part).

At this point I think Italy just has to accept her fleet getting destroyed, and rely on either rebuilding (I’d go all subs first to make the Med dangerous for the Allies) or concentrating on air power to control the Med.  At the end of turn 1, Italy had S. France, Bulgaria, Taken back 1 French African Territory (I forget the name), Sudan and 1 other UK east Africa Territory and overrun Alexandria.  They are in decent shape in Africa and can likely take Egypt on I2.  The Allies control the Med right now, but have no way of reinforcing the land battle in Africa.  An Italian fleet may need to wait, or be all subs till the Med is cleared out with German help.

Italy is MEANT to be a challenge, even for the veteran A&A player…. I think its a good challenge too.

How did UK attack with 2 DD’s? Where did the other one come from? Also, the carrier gets repaired by the naval base at gibraltar, so the planes can land on the carrier with the French Med fleet.

My bad, I meant the cruiser off Egypt.  And I knew we would get some rules wrong/forget some- like the repair one.

My point is still that Italy needs to concentrate on the land battle in Africa and build up her air force well before rebuilding her fleet in the Med.  It seems to just be a fact of the game.  She’ll still need German help to clear the Med as well.

@ll:

Ok, played through turn 1 last night. On G1 I sent 2 subs against the UK Carrier group, ended up losing both subs while only damaging the CV (the Tac landed in Gibralter).  On UK1 a combined fleet of 2 DDs, the Egyptian Fighter, the Tac and the damaged CV recreated Taranto taking out the SZ 95 fleet while losing a DD.  Italy struck back on her turn with her remaining air and sea units taking out the UK fleet losing a fighter.  The French fleet then wiped out the remaining Italians (damn bad rolling on Italy’s part).

At this point I think Italy just has to accept her fleet getting destroyed, and rely on either rebuilding (I’d go all subs first to make the Med dangerous for the Allies) or concentrating on air power to control the Med.  At the end of turn 1, Italy had S. France, Bulgaria, Taken back 1 French African Territory (I forget the name), Sudan and 1 other UK east Africa Territory and overrun Alexandria.  They are in decent shape in Africa and can likely take Egypt on I2.  The Allies control the Med right now, but have no way of reinforcing the land battle in Africa.  An Italian fleet may need to wait, or be all subs till the Med is cleared out with German help.

Italy is MEANT to be a challenge, even for the veteran A&A player…. I think its a good challenge too.

This was a faulty test.  Using 2 SUBs against the UK Gibraltar fleet is crazy dumb.  The German air power from W. Germany needs to be used against the UK/French fleet before you use the remaining Italian fleet like that(Italian fleet does mop up only).  If you choose not to use German air in that way, then send the Italian fleet as far east as possible(invade Transjordan with 1INF and 1ARM), UK/France will not be able to use the naval base in S. France since Italy takes it before F1/UK2.

Instead of counterattacking the UK med fleet, I am thinking of moving the Italian fleet (if sz97 is not touched) to sz98 and take Cyprus.

Build one Fig for Italy.

If the UK chases, then the German air power could threaten the Uk fleet or Italy could counter on I2
Men on Cyprus could move to Egypt or Alexandria on I2 if it is not beefed up.

@jeffdestroyer:

Instead of counterattacking the UK med fleet, I am thinking of moving the Italian fleet (if sz97 is not touched) to sz98 and take Cyprus.

Build one Fig for Italy.

If the UK chases, then the German air power could threaten the Uk fleet or Italy could counter on I2
Men on Cyprus could move to Egypt or Alexandria on I2 if it is not beefed up.

Why Cyprus? Why not Syria?

Whereas I have not been able to look at this issue in-depth yet, I would just caution people from jumping down the throats of people who make early balance claims. :)

One of my first posts when AAP40 came out was ‘So…how do the Allies win again?’ and I claimed that Japan had a tremendous advantage. I was immediately attacked by all these people who proclaimed that I couldnt know anything that early and how we had weak Allied players or how we were making assumptions about this or that etc etc etc. Well I gave up trying to convince people and came back 3-4 months later and lo and behold…everyone was complaining about how unstoppable Japan was lol.

The point being that yes, many claims about balance will obviously be premature at this point, but it’s certainly possible to see various trends even this early in the game’s life cycle.  :)

@calvinhobbesliker:

@jeffdestroyer:

Instead of counterattacking the UK med fleet, I am thinking of moving the Italian fleet (if sz97 is not touched) to sz98 and take Cyprus.

Build one Fig for Italy.

If the UK chases, then the German air power could threaten the Uk fleet or Italy could counter on I2
Men on Cyprus could move to Egypt or Alexandria on I2 if it is not beefed up.

Why Cyprus? Why not Syria?

Either would be fine, depending on the forces available in Egypt to counterstrike and the location of the TR that started in sz98. It might be in the Red Sea.
Syria might be better in order to move into Pro Axis Iraq.