OK experts here’s one. My friend and I are newbies about to play axis against an experienced, but not really an expert player. This is my second time playing axis and we don’t play RR. As Japan I’m expecting Ussr to take Man. with 1arm and 2inf. I also expect UK to build an IC in India bringing inf from egypt and Syria to defend. Also arm to Persia and airforce in Russia.
I propose attacking US China with 2inf from Burma, 2inf from Kwang. fighters from Japan and Burma and perhaps the bomber. Attack Man. with 2inf from Japan, 1arm from Japan with Phil. tran, two fighters from Phil. and AC and two BB amphib.
I know this precludes Pearl. This leaves me in a good position to attack Burma on j2. Should I buy a n IC for Kwang tung on j2? Or have I already made a big mistake. Without going further I’d like to get some feedback.
Let me know how this strat works for you. I’ve often made half-hearted attempts in arguing that it’s not necessary to “do Pearl”. At the same time, i don’t have the balls to avoid it either. The US can wreak FAR too much havoc with its little flotilla.
I like your China approach. Also if you’re not going to “pearl”, then your Man approach is also sufficient.
Think about what to do if:
CC, you probably play RR in which case doing Pearl is easier. But I was thinking if you don’t do pearl the US may take both its eyes off germany for awhile. Plus if UK builds an IC in India they will have fewer resources going against germany. The trick for Japan would be to hold off the US while gaining ground in Asia. An US commitment in the pacific helps germany maintain a high ipc level and doesn’t really take much from japan. Japan can wait until t3 to build naval defenses. Of course the US could say screw the Pacific and take their flotilla through the Panama Canal. Oh the possibilities!
@dubya:
CC, you probably play RR in which case doing Pearl is easier. But I was thinking if you don’t do pearl the US may take both its eyes off germany for awhile. Plus if UK builds an IC in India they will have fewer resources going against germany. The trick for Japan would be to hold off the US while gaining ground in Asia. An US commitment in the pacific helps germany maintain a high ipc level and doesn’t really take much from japan. Japan can wait until t3 to build naval defenses. Of course the US could say screw the Pacific and take their flotilla through the Panama Canal. Oh the possibilities!
In this scenario, i see Japan has having realistically little chance of ever building any kind of naval defences. In fact, my mind is reeling at the American options in this regard. You’re right - a UK IC would take 1 rounds worth of energy away from Germany, but the next turn it could start dropping stuff and still have a few inf being built there.
Also the US does not have to do much to inflict some pain on Germany. A couple of trns dropping troops in Africa, and the rest of its resources in the far east is enough. If the US build enough firepower in Asia, it’s little that Russia has to do. As i said, its a neat strat, i’d like to play against it sometime, just to see how i’d defend against it.
So when was the last time you saw the US charging across the Pacific. This strat certainly gives them that option. Asfor Japan’s naval defense their initial forces plus a couple of trans bought on t1 with prehaps a couple of subs bought on t3 would make a formidable defense.
@dubya:
So when was the last time you saw the US charging across the Pacific. This strat certainly gives them that option. Asfor Japan’s naval defense their initial forces plus a couple of trans bought on t1 with prehaps a couple of subs bought on t3 would make a formidable defense.
as mentioned - i’ve never seen the US navy alive enough to “charge” across the Atlantic.
And i’d love to play against the japanese player who purchases more naval units - esp if i’ve got 2 ic’s on the continent. Definitely slow down the spread over Asia. If i were sticking around, i’d play you, and check out the value of your strat.
What did UK do with IND sz TRN?
Can you hit it with SOL sz SUB or FICB FTR?
A UK IC in IND and US build/move in the Pacific does take a lot of pressure off Germany.
Yes, hit CHI, leaving 1 INF in FICB. Do not allow a walk in for 3 IPCs!
If USSR hits MAN he’s done you a favour by thinning his forces (he cannot reinforce as powerfully as you can attack.) You MUST take MAN back and the Eastern Front March to Moscova must commence! Do not build Japanese IC in Asia. You should be able to use TRNs (build 2 TRNs on J1 and 1 TRN on following turns… until you have enough to move all you build and can send an extra 1 or 2 to grab INF on islands and threaten Australia, NZ, Alaska, HAW, MEX, Brazil and/or Africa.) Build INF, attack with INF/ FTRs. When moving forward build 1 ARM for each 6-7 INF
Attacking US forces later makes you spend more when you need to be hitting USSR (and maybe UK in IND consistently.) HIT THE US WHERE HE CANNOT GET TO YOUR TRNs! Attack the US BB and TRN @ WUS sz to stop them from reinforcing the Allied ATL FLT.You might try a weakened HAW sz attack to tempt a US naval/air attack to destroy your fleet and SLOW THE US MOVE ON GERMANY.
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Try something! If it don’t work, try something else. It’s a game. 8)
On j1 I wouldn’t touch the tran. I would move the sub to celebes or phillipines. Also AC moves to ficb sz. next moves depends much on what US and UK do. If US does something crazy like build a bunch of subs, I was thinking I might need a IC in Asia to keep troops moving there. A US fleet attack might tie up my trans.
I can understand not attacking the UK TRN. You can hit it later … it will clear Australia, which you can take with 1 INF on a TRN later.
I REPEAT!
@Xi:
Attacking US forces later makes you spend more when you need to be hitting USSR (and maybe UK in IND consistently.) HIT THE US WHERE HE CANNOT GET TO YOUR TRNs! On J2 attack the US BB and TRN @ WUS sz to stop them from reinforcing the Allied ATL FLT.You might try a weakened HAW sz attack to tempt a US naval/air attack to destroy your fleet and SLOW THE US MOVE ON GERMANY.
EXPLAIN YOUR DEFENSIVE POSTURE WITH JAPAN’S CV.
Japan needs to be on the offensive/putting US on defensive.
Hitting HAW sz fits the bill! WAZUP??? :-?
First off, moving the CV to ficbsz is to deter the UK from blocking transports from landing on ficb on j2. Second, this strat assumes retaking manchuria is more important than Pearl. The US could attack Japansz on t1 with CV sub and fighter vs. 2BB and 4 trans. I don’t think my US opponent will do this, but he might if he could read my mind. Or he could bring in the BB and tran and Pearl fleet to North Pac. and try for an attack on US2. That gives japan time to send sub and CV with 1 or 2 fighters to japan sz. On j2 3 trans have attacked/reinforced ficb leaving 1tran plus 1 or 2 trans built on j2 in japan sz. The what ifs make things murky at this point, but i don’t see a fatal flaw, do you?
Okay! I see. But you leave the US fleet intact to sail to the UK sz and help with the invasion. Not a good idea.
I won’t give details now. Just say that Japan has to take pressure of Germany. One way to do that is chop up the US fleet.
Hopefully someone else will detail it before I get back.
But, try it and see what your opponent does.
I tried the strat and here are the results. Russia took Manchuria with 2inf and 1arm remaining. Japan easily took US China. Japan attacked manchuria with 4inf 2fighters and 2BB bombardment. Both BBs missed and I ended up retreating fighters with Russian arm remaining. As I guessed the US fleet did not go for the panama canal. Instead, sent everything towards Alaska. Any way, without going into much detail, after 4 rounds Japan has captured India, Sinkiang and Yakut but pretty thin. There is an IC in Kwangtung, no Navy outside a couple of transports 2 fighters and Bomber. I think around 35 IPCs. Germany is pretty strong in Ukraine EE and Germany with a small force in Algeria and 2trans in Med. Russia has buko inf and and 3arm in Karelia. UK and US airfoce also in Karelia. UK has 2arm in WE with a bunch of trans in Baltic and UKsz. US has a small force in territory south of Algeria, trans and stuff to put on them in EUSsz. An IC in Alaska! With 6inf maybe a tank and 4trans near Alaska.
the low point for the Axis was when Germany sent 2fighter and 1 bomber aganst 3 UKtrans. Germany missed altogether whil 3 trans scored 2 hits! Ishould have retreated the bomber but I pressed on, losing the bomber an killing only 1trans.
All in all the strat worked by keeping the US in the Pacific. But the combination of bad dice, the cry of a loser, and Allies advantage in a nonRR game has given the Allies a slight upper hand. The game is adjourned util saturday night - yes I have no life, but I’m old. Anyone with any advice at this point would be appreciated. Xi, CC et al. HELP!
Dubya - no advice right now, but i am crying for you. I think that Japan needs to move all available fleets to JP SZ (no duh!), and keep dropping stuff (subs, trns, etc.) into the sea. Don´t worry about your thin line in Asia. Keep the press up in East Eur, and you´ll expand your territory eventually. Not good for the Axis to be in a defensive position (esp Japan, esp like this). If the board is how i imagine, i think that hari-kari is not far off from a good strat with a mulligan.
Well, the game was this past Sat. On Russia"s first move, took EE!. I was sort of hoping he would try that but i didnt count on him having 7inf and 3arm on EE after the battle. I probably should have conceded then, but he had made a snide remark about me making a mistake by Japan leaving Burma open and UK could take it from Australia. After he did this Japan retook Burma and landed an infantry in Australia. He took the bait, but eventually had the last laff, as the Germans were ground into dust.
I don’t think the no pearl strat hurt or helped either side. I think if I were US I’d take the whole party through the Panama Canal. For our next game I agreed to be axis again,and my opponent agreed to RR. In this case I think I will do pearl - gotta do something with those BBs.
My main question is what to do with Baltic sub and tran? I’ve never played with those toys before. Anyway thanks for all the advice, but after that last game, give me better dice!
Russia: Nothing but Infantry unless you would end up with 2 IPC’s left. If no-attack on round #1, then everything but 1 Infantry into Karelia and pull all out of the soviet far east save 1 INF for a strong counter attack. If attack on round #1, attack the german navy for sure, make him lose fighters for sinking the brit navy.
Germany: I’ve found that lots of infantry pays off towards later rounds, depends on the foe. I’ve played 200 times over 20 years, the germans and the russians stalemate, the brits and the US threaten the german coast while bring troops via finland. Lots of infantry means low value targets along the coast with high defense. Sink the Brit navy on turn 1, go all out. A varient, build 1 transport south, hit egypt with battleship, transport maybe air support and hope for victory against the brit sub, take egypt so allied air can’t attack navy and land, keep fighter in range of gibralter if the bit bomber needs to land there to kill german transport…… If all goes well it’s too costly to sink the german south navy, get some forces into africa and nurse it for IPCs. By T3 or so no more forces to africa unless cake walking in europe. Long term goal is to survive long enough for the Japs to crush. Keep bomber in western europe to smoke undefended transports on US coast.
Brits: You should end up with 1 transport off Canada and 1 off India, the rest is sunk and hopefully you took some german air with it. Either build 1 carrier and 1 transport, move in transport from Canada, move in US transport on US turn, USA flies 2 fighters to brit carrier. If the german position is too strong, save all your cash and build a bigger navy next turn. I’ve waited until turn 3 to build the brit navy and save all my cash the prior 2 turns. This requires the US to commit 50-75% of her resources.
Japs: Not a big fan of factories early on nor pearl harbour. Japan has good air power but needs cannon fodder ie infantry on land. A factory becomes an anchor, you must protect it, then build an AA for it. If you build factories, you build tanks with 'em cause you only build 3 units/turn at best with them. Build 2 transports and 3 infantry on round 1. Optimise their use, remember to take 1 infantry off a close island and 1 off Japan. 4 transports moves 8 infantry per turn on the mainland, Japan can’t build more than that until round 3 and latter. Save any excess money after 8 infantry per round then build a 5th transport. Now you are moving 30 IPC/turn onto the mainland. You don’t need any more transports. Your fleet should always move between Japan and Burma, move to burma and drop off infantry, then move the fleet to Japan and drop off infantry in Manchuria. Sooner or later you will see a huge opportunity to move the fleet from burma to africa, even if you don’t, the allies must defend the threat… If you must tie up your transports for fleet defense (cannon fodder) or your transports are in africa dropping off, then build a factory to take up the slack production. Japan must maximize it’s threat potential causing allies to use resources defending your options. Do this while always getting infantry to the contintent via transports. As the game progresses build 1 or 2 factories to get tanks to bare quickly. How often have you seen the japanese use tanks for fodder? If the german player is a rock of infantry stability you can crank you income to silly levels, make the russians defend russia. A huge allied multinational force is great on defence useless on offense, think economic victory…
United States. Logistics, Logistics, Logistics… The main key is bring troops over with british help to finland. You have transports in england, they move to Canada and load, move to england and unload in finland, it’s a long supply line, the sooner it gets going the sooner you threaten the german coast and get units onto karelia then against the Japs. If you build 1 transport on the east coast you must build 2 loads, 1 to go with it and 1 to move to Canada for next turns pick up. Build 2-3 transports on the east coast (watch for german bomber in west europe) and lots of equipment, plan your supply line. Sooner or later the british must move their fleet to land units on africa, you will have to move your fleet as well, a good time to have tanks in Canada to pick up and drop off in Algeria.
Allies: With good allied logistics you don’t need any strategy. Just outproduce, tie up the axis forces with threats, play conservative and avoid mistakes or close battles. Keep an eye on Japanese expansion in Africa, keep a tank or two there as ‘safties’. Build infantry, transports move 2 per round, once the supply line is set up the US brings over 8 infantry and a tank per round, the brits maybe 1 tank and as many infantry per round as IPC’s permit. Slip a few allied units with the russians to open opportunities (knock out the 1 infantry blocking the way to 2 bombers behind…) but stack most of them on karelia freeing the russians to repel the Japs.
Axis: Prayer… All out attack on the brit navy by the germans, milk africa for IPCs stay alive for the Japs. Japs must think expansion always.
BB, I hear ya loud and clear. i especially like the German variant V. Egypt. My original question had a lot to do with not doing Pearl, which you seem to agree. However in an RR game, or any game where Russia does not take manchuria, i think pearl may be necessary if only to keep that AC and fighter from heading to the panama canal, threatening germany by t3. I like your focus on logistics, an area which i need considerable improvment. thanks for the feedback.
I’m not very concerned with the US moving the Pacific fleet to the Atlantic. I’m part of a hard-core group of about 7 guys, over the years we’ve gottem fairly vicious and efficient. The brits and USA can’t afford to wait, it would be the Brits fourth turn by the time that carrier got to England, too late. The brits must have a navy by turn 2 maybe 3 that is tough enough to prevent the Germans from attacking it. At best it gives you a luxury of perhaps splitting the US and Brit atlantic fleet later on but why would you need to? Perhaps it might make sense to have them on the coast of the atlantic to protect newly built transports, but if Germany doesn’t put their bomber on Western Europe on turn1, you build all the transports you will ever need, the newly built Brit carrier with your fighters and the combined transport force (4-5 Brit and 4-5 USA) is enough navy.
If german fleet is wiped out by UK 1-
UK does not build on UK1. Saves IPCs and builds (on UK2)
too big a fleet for Germany to mess.
Problem solved.
Japan-Kill US fleet. Build 2 TRN & 3 INF on J1.
Build 1 TRN and the rest INF on J2.
Ship it all to MAN. focus - KILL USSR or the game is kerput!
Depending on what exactly can hit the Brit home waters and what is left I often build a brit carrier, xport and inf on T1. Move surviving allied navy in, kill enemy navy around with air. On US turn she supplies 2 ftrs for carrier. If there is 1 brit xport left, you have 1 loaded carrier and 3 xports. 14D with 6 units and fodder. If the Germans have > 4 air units and the allies have only 14D with 6 units then perhaps a bit too risky. If you get that allied navy up on T1 then the allies take Finland on T2 and the benefits compound over the turns.
BB
Yeah, I see, B_B_.
My plan was for worst case scenario.
@W:
:D …after 4 rounds Japan has captured India, Sinkiang and Yakut but pretty thin…
W, this means 4-5 turns for allies to prepare before you get anything to attack RUS(the capital) . Where was your IJN (fleet) to hit 4 TRNs off ALK?
I disagree with B_B_s FICB/MAN rotation. Again,
Japan’s objective is to attack USSSR[drop INF in MAN] to reduce USSR’s IPC/INF count. Use B_B_'s build, use FTRs as ARM.
I would consider the FICB(Burma) move once Japan had a force that USSR could not counter(as the game ends.)
