How to counter J3 India Crush?

I’ll lose a bmb instead.  sz42 must have both fht.

I don’t often get attacked there anyway, and when I do, it is usually bad for the UK, not me.  I take it to prevent the Allies from locking it down with planes, or doing a fht transfer.

Yea Jap should win the battle, but it could cost them a couple of precious ground units. What are the odds on this battle. Better yet what are the odds that it goes two rounds.

I win 83%, usually should be with the tac and tank.

@jim010:

I don’t need the 2 inf and art to take Ind

Indiana?

Sorry, I failed geography.

(Disclaimer: This is Kaufschtick, I’m in Dayton at Buckeyeboys place…don’t ask me how many beers I’ve had… :-P)

The abreviations used are from the battlemap used here to play online.

Phi is Philipines
Ind is India

@jim010:

Yea Jap should win the battle, but it could cost them a couple of precious ground units. What are the odds on this battle. Better yet what are the odds that it goes two rounds.

I win 83%, usually should be with the tac and tank.

Jim, Tim and I set up the game, played OOB. Can you give us some idea of a typical situation on J2 as far as what Japan has in SZs 37 & 38, ship wise?

We felt that there existed the possibility of a B1 (2) x DD buy, to then attack into one of these two SZs and possibly close the front door on the Japanese to India.

PS- This is Kaufschtick, sitting here with Buckeyeboy, we’d offer you a beer, but it’d be warm by the time you got here.

So we already drank it. :-D

@jim010:

The abreviations used are from the battlemap used here to play online.

Phi is Philipines
Ind is India

Sorry, we’re in the Big Ten.

Without seeing where the Allies are, I really can’t say.

@jim010:

Without seeing where the Allies are, I really can’t say.

We had the US at start at Pearl, of course. 2 x US bmbr, ftr & Db at Queensland.

China counter-attacked Yunnan (and won, 3 inf survived)

Britian bought 2 x DD

ANZAC Queensland ftr to Singapore, the rest of the ANZACer ftrs to Queensland.

@pusfilledwart:

India Crush doesnt mean game is over. i got “crushed” and still won as the allies. Korea is the weak link for Nippon. some may disagree with that but in time you will see,young ones. 8-)

I think Korea could be the best move for the allies. Would you be ballsy enough to try it US3, while Jap navy and air force is out of range (doing India crush).

Rd#1 US could buy 2 tpts and would now have 3 (figured they lost the one at Pearl) and you have the troops to load all 3.
Anz move sub towards Hawaii (target of opportunity ?), load one inf on tpt and move to NZ w/DD.

Rd#2 send US navy and all air to Midway and buy NB there for range. Jap would have to block 3 sz’s to keep you out of sz6 (and it won’t have 3 ships at home). Send 4 Anz ftrs, DD, and loaded tpt to Hawaii.

At this point Jap has bought its AB/NB on Kwangsi, and has its air/navy there ready to attack India (spent most of its $). It hasn’t bought any ships other then trps. It has to decide to come back home to def Korea, or proceed with the India crush. Chances are that it will split its force and try to do both. Maybe send some of its air home to scramble, as it will need much of its fleet in the Indian ocean to protect its transports and run blocker.

Depending on what Jap does the US must decide to go forward w/Korea plan or abort. It would have SS, DD CR, BB, CV (loaded), the 2 bmrs, and 3 trpts (loaded) to send to sz 6 to face scramble (and maybe a couple Jap ships. That’s a sizable force (absorb up to 11 hits), but Jap could easily detour the US if it wants to. If Jap returns home with 1/2 its air force (10-12 planes), would it have enough to do the India crush, or would it have to call it off. If it still does India crush will Jap loose a chunk of its air in the process (the battle would go longer).

If Jap doesn’t keep enough units at home (miss judges the US force intentions) the US may just attempt an amphib on a Korea, especially if it is unoccupied. It would have the 6 ground units to take it + the 2 Anz inf, and 4 Anz ftrs could noncombat in from Hawaii (the US/Anz could take out blocker with sub/air if there is one). Could also bring the Anz DD if you need it. Jap won’t have trpts at home (they went to India), and the Manchurian force is deep into China, so Jap can’t take it back. The next round the US brings in the rest of its air force, and builds a major IC. If US or Anz is able to block the Jap fleet from returning home, it might even get to build its 10 units.

I know its along shot that the US will succeed (or even follow through), but just the immediate threat could sway the J3 India crush, or at least weaken the Jap force involved causing Jap to loose more units then it normally would. If the Jap navy is in a hurry to get back home, it might not be able to get the DEI either.

Its rather late (after 3:00 am in Mich), so I’m not sure if this is all making sense or not, especially to the guys south of the Michigan border in Dayton (I hear they’ve been drinking again).

I would say Korea is not a viable strategy against an experienced japanese player. But ofcourse its always good to put pressure on japan and it might get you a couple of cheap kills on screening destroyers.

Having played a couple of games against Jim with this strategy i would say it is near impossible to beat at least in the beginning.
As the brittish you need to think on how to sell yourself as dearly as possible, and not how you can stop the japanese. The best you can hope for is to delay the japanese to turn 4, but even the chances of doing this are small.

In my limited experince there are two decent counter strategies for the Brittish.

One is to move everything to Burma Turn 1 in order to trade your units for japanese air units. This also requires you to use your navy to screen Burma from the japanese transports. The japanese player will propably attack you with only air, because if he doesnt you will likely be able to hold India to turn 4. With good rolls this move can be expensive for the japanese player, and perhaps help the US hold Caroline islands later on.

Another option is to buy Mech infantry the first turn in order to counter-attack yunan and Shan state Turn 2. This still requires you to screen off Burma. With this strategy you get to kill some japanese ground units witch can ease some of the pressure on the chinese. You also have a small chance of delaying the japanese to turn 4. But the biggest benefit is to help the chinese, and it can be a good oppertunity to move the brittish air to China witch enables you to drag out the chinese war a lot longer.

I know this just scratches the surface, and please do post if anyone has seen other options.

Here are my Jap 1 turn moves.  I can alter it a bit, as there is plenty of room to change it.

JP1.AAM

Here’s what it would look like after the battles running to odds and NCM.

JP1_finish.AAM

After that it entirely depends on where the Allies move to and buy.

I don’t claim to win every time, as s#!t happens and mistakes are made, but I do claim I’ll win 3/4.

@Lord:

In my limited experince there are two decent counter strategies for the Brittish.

One is to move everything to Burma Turn 1 in order to trade your units for japanese air units. This also requires you to use your navy to screen Burma from the japanese transports. The japanese player will propably attack you with only air, because if he doesnt you will likely be able to hold India to turn 4. With good rolls this move can be expensive for the japanese player, and perhaps help the US hold Caroline islands later on.

It’s very helpful to move your India AA with the troops to Burma (and buy a fresh one for India, although that can even wait a little bit, depending on the threat).

ofcourse “everything” includes the AA gun. You dont really have to buy a new one either since the japanese attack with air only, and you can just move it back to India turn 2.

After reading the posts it seems this title is wrong, it should read how to perform the India crush, cause I’m not seeing any counter arguments. Jim any ideas how to counter?

@cond1024:

After reading the posts it seems this title is wrong, it should read how to perform the India crush, cause I’m not seeing any counter arguments. Jim any ideas how to counter?

Well, a lot of folks like myself haven’t really played much with this strat, so we gotta see it before we can wade in on what to do against it. Me?, I’m gonna take Jim’s word for it…

@jim010:

I don’t claim to win every time, as s#!t happens and mistakes are made, but I do claim I’ll win 3/4.

We’ve already got so many Japanese wins in on this game already that it isn’t even close to being funny.

At this point, it’s kinda hard to get excited about yet another Japanese super strat.

I just got back from Dayton the other day after three days of gaming and beer drinking with Buckeyeboy. 8 hours of gaming Monday night, a marathon 16 hours Tuesday, and 8 more Wednesday. I lost track of how many hours we’ve spent on AAP:40 at 150 hours. We’re somewhere around 230-250 hours played  by my nearest guess now.

This past week we went back and played some OOB games, we looked at Jims J3 India crush, and a big air stack in Singapore Allied defense.

I’m kinda spent on the game at this point.

Larry made the comment that he liked a challenge as the Allies, and that the Japanese may have been made too powerful.

I like a challenge too, but after a while it just gets to be no fun playing the Allies. And it even gets to be no fun playing the Japanese too. When you have a winning strat that works as the Japanese, it gets boring after a while. The Allies get frustrating as you have to play error free and get some help from the dice.

I hope Europe comes out soon, because I’m just to the point where I find myself wanting to just throw my hands up and walk away from AAP:40.

Wrong set up charts, not enough Japanese dive bomber pieces, so much errata and rules clarifications it made my head spin, and all to come to the point that the game has some serious set up and balance flaws.

It all adds up to not much fun as a game, for me.

After reading the posts it seems this title is wrong, it should read how to perform the India crush, cause I’m not seeing any counter arguments. Jim any ideas how to counter?

The counters that did work were when the allies stacked up in front of me and I had to air sweep them - which I will always do.  Unfortunatley, I have enough air power to kill just about everything in my first throw on each battle offered, but when I lost, it was because I rolled badly under odds or the Allies rolled way over (or both).

It’s a crummy counter to hope for luck, but my last game I lost 16 planes when I should have only lost 8.  If you create possibilities for luck, the luck may come.

But when it goes to odds or I’m lucky (and when you throw more dice than the other guy, you are more likely to roll up than he is) then you are screwed.

I have just as many hours on this as Kauf and others both online and with friends.

But I will say this - after playing this much for entertainment, I’d say the money I spent on the game is a bargain.

I bought Guadalcanal and played it twice.  And that was it.  Now that is a bad investment.

… and after having played this game so much, I am getting bored with it, and will likely finish up the couple of games I have left and move onto Europe - and try the India crush there in the global game.

Can you imagine taking India on turn 3 in the global game (as happens here) and then building 10 tanks out of it for a couple of turns?  Russia is dogmeat, if this is possible.