Improved Forced Perspective Map

UK and Italy should be two territories
I assume Morocco is also present

So it appears Switzerland has an infantry spawn symbol, so it will be possible to invade Switzerland? :-o  It does not appear to have an IPC symbol though, so unless it’s worth it to open up a direct border between Germany and Northern Italy, there isn’t much point in invading it, huh?

Doesn’t it seem kind of easy to take neutral countries and drink up their IPCs all game long. If this is supposed to be somewhat like the real war, I think that having them as impassable or non-enterable was a better idea than this new ‘infantry spawn’ method. Historically, that is. In Europe/Global 40, I forsee that any and all IPC producing countries will be invaded and taken advantage of by whoever can get them. Not that I am against this, because it is fine by me, but there must have been reasons Hitler did not invade Switzerland, or Spain (or use Spain, if they were neutral pro-axis). I just think the game, as it pertains to neutral territories, will not turn out like the real war did. Anything that can be invaded, will be invaded. I don’t know if this is what the designers intended or not.

A question: Say, for example, Germany were to take Spain or Switzerland, and say they gain IPCs every turn for them. What happens if the Allies “liberate” these territories? Do they revert to neutrality? Do the Allies take control of them and get the per-turn income?

Maybe we can only theorize about the answer right now.

As far as I know, they would move over to Allied control.  No “reversion to neutrality” rule has been mentioned.

However, a good number of the neutrals in this version of the game that were neutral territories in previous versions (Spain?, Switzerland, Sweden, Portugal, and most of South America for instance) have no IPC value, and therefore they probably will not be invaded.  So long as Spain, Switzerland, and Sweden have no IPC value, there really aren’t many good reasons to invade them, because you can’t build an IC on them (which with Spain might be nice for Germany) and they aren’t really in the way of you getting anywhere you need to go.  Spain is on the end of the European continent (only reason might be to get at Gibraltar easier), though it may have an IPC mark covered up by that Italian tank.  Portugal is even more of a dead end than Spain.  Switzerland (assuming a territory setup similar to AA50) is between Italy and Germany, but tanks and mech would have to blitz through to get from one to the other anyway and should still be able to blitz around through the adjacent territory (which used to be Balkans in AA50), so taking Switzerland shouldn’t really accomplish anything.  Norway and Finland are connected without having to go through Sweden.  With these considerations plus a (hopefully) large infantry spawn should make invading these neutrals out of the question as it would be a waste of resources.  No one is going to want to invade Switzerland and fight a bunch of infantry just to have the territory unless they’re already winning anyway.  These neutrals are also going to be “true” neutrals that will not be on either side of the playing field.

Other new neutrals like in the Middle East and Brazil were NOT neutral in AA50 and previous versions, because they WERE invaded/occupied/whatever in the actual war.  Most, if not all, of these will be pro-Axis or pro-Allies neutrals which is suggestive anyway.  So I don’t think there will be too many problems with historical playout.  The cool thing is that it at least gives you the option to invade them if you want to put an airbase or naval base in Sweden for example, which is exactly what A&A is all about. 8-)

Okay… well, if there is no monetary advantage, then, yeah, why even invade. I was under the impression that most of the European neutrals would be WORTH something. If they are not, then my questions don’t matter much. However, good point with the Air/Naval bases… that could be useful, depending on the circumstance.

A naval base on Sweden is just as good as one on Norway. The only advantage is that it’s harder for the allies to invade

@calvinhobbesliker:

A naval base on Sweden is just as good as one on Norway. The only advantage is that it’s harder for the allies to invade

Yeah, I agree that the utility or practicality of usage will be slim. As in, building Naval or Air bases in conquered neutrals will be mostly uncessary. I could see few times when you’d have either the need or the money to do it.

@calvinhobbesliker:

A naval base on Sweden is just as good as one on Norway. The only advantage is that it’s harder for the allies to invade

Precisely, Norway will be equivalent to Sweden as far as positioning goes since it connects to most of the same territories & sea zones, though it looks like it might touch more of the Baltic sea zones than Norway does.  It’s kinda hard to see what changes were made to the Baltic. :-(  And you’re right about Norway connecting to the Northern sea zones making it easier for the Allies to invade than Sweden being inside the protected Baltic.

@SAS:

No one is going to want to invade Switzerland and fight a bunch of infantry just to have the territory unless they’re already winning anyway.

Let me rephrase this: lots of people (including me) will want to invade Switzerland to put a roundel there, but it will not be strategically smart because you have to fight however many infantry units that otherwise are doing nothing, wasting your units.

One true neutral that will likely be invaded all the time will be Turkey, though if Italy doesn’t want to use their navy to get at the USSR and the Soviets don’t care to do anything with navies, it may stay as it was historically, which is a very good possibility also.

However, I was mostly considering the true neutrals from the Axis perspective, but invading Portugal or Spain as the Allies in order to gain a foothold in Europe might be quite interesting as well.  This is why I think it would be really interesting to have an extra repercussion like the other True Neutrals changing to pro-Axis because that would mean that Germany/Italy would get at least the Switzerland infantry for free, though I don’t like the idea of all true neutrals changing as that really doesn’t make sense either.  If there isn’t some kind of repercussion though, I can see invading Spain and Portugal as becoming standard (assuming they don’t have a ridiculous number of spawn units) as an extra entrance into Europe for the Allies (one that would be farther from Rome and Berlin than France) and as a defensive measure for the Axis to prevent this same thing.

Anyone else have thoughts on how being able to invade Spain and Portugal will affect European invasion/defense strategies?

I think that ships off EUS can reach Spain, which is 3 SZ’s away. There may even be the possibility that Germany/Italy and US/UK will trade Spain, so they both wait for the other to attack so they don’t have to lose units to the spawn infantry, and thus neither will attack Span. portugal is easier to capture as the allies since it doesn’t have a Med connection, so the only way for the axis to reach it is to invade Spain, or to invade via the Atlantic, which exposes them to attack from the allies

The fact that US ships can reach Spain right away is an important one in my mind, as the US could easily set up a fast shuck into Europe.  Portugal would still be relatively useless for the Allies as they would have to fight first the Portuguese infantry AND THEN the Spanish, but the whole Spain thing will be interesting.  However, taking Portugal as the Allies and building a naval base there would allow the US to simply have two sets of transports that are able to drop units into Spain every single turn…  Of course, the involvement of the US is not guaranteed until the 3rd turn, but it is an eventuality.

I don’t know about invading Spain/Portugal to get a European foothold… I thought it was a good idea at first, but then I considered a few other things…

First off, by getting a foothold you expose your troops to German preemptive strike. Where as if they are in Britain or on transports, this cannot happen.

Secondly, you lose your bombardment shots if you have battleships or cruisers. Those shots are often very tactically important in a battle where you don’t have a direct landline to push more troops in.

Thirdly, getting a foothold will not hurt the Germans at all. They suffer no economic loss and they can simply sit and wait for the Allies to attack France, or wherever. Since you can’t build an industrial complex (providing the territory is not worth anything), you can’t wage indefinite war there. And even if you could build an IC, if I were the German player, I would take you out and take it over before you could put guys there. God knows you could do that with Germany because their units will start so close to Spain/Portugal.

So… intersting idea, but I don’t know if it would be effective.

I guess it could help to have forces in Spain (providing they aren’t wiped out) if you want to conduct a dual assualt on the next turn; an amphibious assault AND an attack from Spain. This being the strategy if you don’t have enough transports, or you don’t want to build more.

And having a “Washington Express” going on sure would help matters. But, again, if I were Germany, I would take Spain and Portugal right back from you ASAP. I wouldn’t let you hold them. The problem would be the constant threat of re-invasion from the US and Britain. I think it would come to the point where Germany really cannot turn back the combined Allied armada, at which point it will become a land war where it may be anyone’s battle.

I guess we will have to see how it works out.

@LHoffman:

I guess it could help to have forces in Spain (providing they aren’t wiped out) if you want to conduct a dual assualt on the next turn; an amphibious assault AND an attack from Spain. This being the strategy if you don’t have enough transports, or you don’t want to build more.

And having a “Washington Express” going on sure would help matters. But, again, if I were Germany, I would take Spain and Portugal right back from you ASAP. I wouldn’t let you hold them. The problem would be the constant threat of re-invasion from the US and Britain. I think it would come to the point where Germany really cannot turn back the combined Allied armada, at which point it will become a land war where it may be anyone’s battle.

I guess we will have to see how it works out.

If the US just takes Portugal, Germany can’t retake it immediately as they can’t blitz through Spain

@calvinhobbesliker:

If the US just takes Portugal, Germany can’t retake it immediately as they can’t blitz through Spain

Well, as long as the US can’t put an IC there, it shouldn’t matter. Germany can wait a turn to take it if they have to. Besides, Portugal is less important to German security than Spain. If nothing else, it is because it is one more space removed. All I can see Portugal being used for is a staging, or rally, point. They too will have to deal with Spain if they want to get to German controlled France. So it will also take the Allies another turn, just to be in range of France. By then the Germans will have massed something along the border of Spain to defend/strike. Portugal is just too far and would take too long for an effective route into France. Why not just go direct?

Very true. If the UK has units in Gibraltar(or transports in the Med), they could capture Spain by that route, but that will allow Italy to do major damage

@calvinhobbesliker:

Very true. If the UK has units in Gibraltar(or transports in the Med), they could capture Spain by that route, but that will allow Italy to do major damage

Good point. I (at least) have sort of ignored Italy’s presence or abilities here, because they could help Germany too. Italy is probably in an even better position to do stuff in Spain or that area of the Med. than anyone else.

I think that Turkey has a value of 2 IPCs (from the photo we have), so it’s pretty possible that both Spain and Portugal have a value as well (that is pretty logic BTW). I guess 1 for Portugal and 2 for Spain. I hope at least 3 inf popping from Portugal and 6 from Spain, it’s the minimun needed if we don’t want invasion on Iberia a routine. Switzerland could have a value of 1, but it should pop a obscene amount of inf to represent the futility of attacking it and their special neutral status (maybe 10 infs are enough?) or being a impassable territory. Turkey should pop 6 inf as well, speciall given that seems that it’s only one territory

Other neutrals? Sweden could work with 4-5, Eire with 2-3, and probably African and American minors could have 1 each. Let’s pray for the neutrals retaliating as one country and no neutral ACME walls (Mongolia was useless anyway in AAP40, but It’s going to be ridiculous if that mechanic passes to Global)

There may very well be a rule that states the US (perhaps the UK also) can not attack “true neutrals”

The USSR, I susspect, will be able to attack anything it wants, besides the other allies of course.