Open Forum for Allied Strategies

Ansbach

Constructive criticism: The theory behind the strategy is sound, but the execution is extrememly inefficient. You basically aren’t doing anything with the US on Turns 1,3, and 5!

Another slow turn of building up, but what do you expect from a country half an ocean away from the battlefront? "

Doesn’t that go against the very heart of your ATB strategy - doing as much as possible in as little time as possible?

This goes back to the initial conversation I was having with TM about the inefficient US play she was playing against - by delaying one turn and using Eastern Canada as your staging ground instead, you will be bringing troops to the Front each and every turn. Every turn you send transports back to the US East Coast is a wasted turn by the most powerful country in the game.

Instead of focusing on some of the specific tactical problems above, let’s zoom out and look at the overall strategy:

Basically, you are transporting 20 Infantry and 1 Armor to the Western Front in 5 Turns. At the end of turn 5 you have 8 transports in Eastern US ready to transport 16 infantry. That means on Turn 6 you will have transported 16 more, then, on Turn 7 you will have to go back to Eastern US and deliver more on Turn 8. Delivering troops every other turn, just like TM was talking about.

You can and should be delivering troops with the US on EVERY TURN, either to Norway, Western Europe, or Algeria. Buy Turn 5, it will be at least 10 infantry a turn.

Turns 1-7, you are basically transporting the following: 2,8,0,14,0,16,0

When you could deliver: 2,4,6,8,10,10,10,12 etc

Give me some time to work it out on paper and I will post it for you.

“A clever military leader will succeed in many cases in choosing defensive positions of such an offensive nature from the strategic point of view that the enemy is compelled to attack us in them.” - Moltke

[ This Message was edited by: Ansbach on 2002-05-30 13:41 ]

Ansbach

Ok, below is an example of working from Eastern Canada, which is a much more efficient way to transport troops - I put it in quotes so that it is easier to read the whole thing. This is only meant to show the overall strategy, not be a specific turn-for-turn build, so for simplicity’s sake I have made two assumptions:

1.) Everything is being dropped of in a friendly Ireland, just to show total numbers. In reality, the troops would either be going to Norway, Western Europe, or Algeria based on the specific tactical situation of each turn.

2.) Japan is not going to inturrupt this supply chain. Of couse a good Japanese player will, but covering those responses is a completely different topic. Suffice it to say that the US should deal with the Japanese interference with as little disruption to the strategy below as possible.

1. USA (36 IPCs)
Buy 12 Infantry.
Move Armor to Eastern Canada
US Transport - 2 Infantry to Ireland
Remaining IPCs: 0
Income: 34 IPCs
Total Troops in Ireland: 2 Infantry
Total Troops in Eastern Canada: 1 Armor
Total Troops in Eastern US: 12 Infantry
North Sea: 1 Transport
US East Coast: nothing

2. USA (34 IPCs)
Buy: 2 Transports, 6 infantry
Move 12 infantry from Eastern US to Eastern Canada
North Sea Transport - 1 Armor to Ireland
Remaining IPCs: 0
Income: 32 IPCs
Total Troops in Ireland: 2 Infantry, 1 Armor
Total Troops in Eastern Canada: 12 Infantry
Total Troops in Eastern US: 6 Infantry
North Sea: 1 Transport
US East Coast: 2 Transports

3. USA (32 IPCs)
Buy: 1 Transport, 8 Infantry
NS Transport - 2 Infantry from Eastern Canada to Ireland
US Transports - 4 Infantry from Eastern US to Ireland
Move 2 Infantry from Eastern US to Eastern Canada
Remaining IPCs: 0
Income: 32 IPCs
Total Troops in Ireland: 8 Infantry, 1 Armor
Total Troops in Eastern Canada: 12 Infantry
Total Troops in Eastern US: 8 Infantry
North Sea: 3 Transports
US East Coast: 1 Transport

4. USA (32 IPCs)
Buy: 1 Transport, 8 Infantry
NS Transports - 6 Infantry from Eastern Canada to Ireland
US Transport - 2 Infantry from Eastern US to Ireland
Move 6 Infantry to Eastern Canada
Remaining IPCs: 0
Income: 32 IPCs
Total Troops in Ireland: 16 Infantry, 1 Armor
Total Troops in Eastern Canada: 12 Infantry
Total Troops in Eastern US: 8 Infantry
North Sea: 4 Transports
US East Coast: 1 Transport

5. USA (32 IPCs)
Buy: 10 infantry
NS Transports - 8 Infantry from Eastern Canada to Ireland
US Transport – 2 Infantry from Eastern US to Ireland
Move 6 Infantry to Eastern Canada
Remaining IPCs: 2
Income: 32 IPCs
Total Troops in Ireland: 26 Infantry, 1 Armor
Total Troops in Eastern Canada: 10 Infantry
Total Troops in Eastern US: 10 Infantry
North Sea: 5 Transports
US East Coast: nothing

6. USA (34 IPCs)
Buy: 10 infantry
Transport 10 Infantry from Eastern Canada to Ireland
Move 10 Infantry to Eastern Canada
Remaining IPCs: 4
Income: 32 IPCs
Total Troops in Ireland: 36 Infantry, 1 Armor
Total Troops in Eastern Canada: 10 Infantry
Total Troops in Eastern US: 10 Infantry
North Sea: 5 Transports
US East Coast: nothing

Repeat Turn 6

Now, this isn’t perfect but you get the idea. Ignore the tactical specifics of each turn and think of this as a generic template, then change the strategy to that of your own - hitting Algeria on US2 and Western Europe on US4 with big waves. You can shuffle around the transport buys and get different numbers of troops over to the Western Theater on different turns.

Also, you still don’t have to transport troops every turn if you just want to hit with a giant wave, but working from Eastern Canada will give you the option - which you currently don’t have. Plus you will be able to follow up a big landing with more reinforcements the next turn instead of just sending them back to the US East Coast.

–---------------------------------------

The short version of all this is that if you get your troops to Eastern Canada and deploy from there, you can hit somewhere every turn.

Also, for those of you who are unfamiliar with the Infantry Push on Germany strategy, UK can follow a similar strategy with smaller amounts of infantry and transports. Tag along with the US troops, and send everything along the following route: Norway -> Karelia -> Eastern Europe -> Germany. Unless you are playing with rules to help out the Axis like bidding, you can win 90% of your games this way. It will take a while if Germany is smart and builds mostly infantry, but if they buy too many tanks or send too much to Africa they will fall like a house of cards.

“A clever military leader will succeed in many cases in choosing defensive positions of such an offensive nature from the strategic point of view that the enemy is compelled to attack us in them.” - Moltke

[ This Message was edited by: Ansbach on 2002-05-30 15:33 ]

TG Boozer!
Your strategy for US sucks@Q@
You suck! America sucks! i will kill you like adolf hitler! –---- Osoma!!!

Ansbach

Nice - that’s the first dumbass kiddie-post I’ve seen in this forum - until now I thought we were all mature. I’m hoping Yanny can delete crap like this?

Thanks for your intelligent contribution to the discussion.

“A clever military leader will succeed in many cases in choosing defensive positions of such an offensive nature from the strategic point of view that the enemy is compelled to attack us in them.” - Moltke

[ This Message was edited by: Ansbach on 2002-05-30 14:09 ]

FinsterniS

its a canadian i think, hes infecting the forum with absurdity… Maybe the forum should require peaple to register before writing message, but thats only my humble opinion i dont want to tell you want to do.

Ansbach

I forgot to mention one of the most important factors! By having your transports operate from the North Sea, every turn you are threatening…

Western Europe
Germany
Eastern Europe
Algeria

… with a one-two punch from the UK and US, or a one-two-three punch to Eastern Europe with Russia!

“A clever military leader will succeed in many cases in choosing defensive positions of such an offensive nature from the strategic point of view that the enemy is compelled to attack us in them.” - Moltke

[ This Message was edited by: Ansbach on 2002-05-30 15:22 ]

TG Moses VI

“TG Boozer!
Your strategy for US sucks@Q@”

First of all, I know my strategies aren’t perfect. I know that. That’s why I posted them and hope to find some suggestions and comments. But at least I take pride in what I do, which is more than what I can say for you.

TG Moses VI

FinsterniS, this is the first time I’ve seen you here. Welcome to a new domain :smile:
I’m intrested on what you have to say on the game strategies and principles.

TG Moses VI

Ansbach
Yeah, I guess you’re right. However this is one of four strategies. The second one is the expected “Let’s help our Commie Friends” (some ATB), the third “Japan, this is for Pearl Harbor” (a boatload of ATB), and “Whacky Fun Hour” (I’m not even going to get into this).

Now in “Let’s help our Commie Friends,” I do use your principles. That means to continuous stream of forces from Eastern Canada. However, the main problem is two other Fronts, Western Europe and Africa. With Africa, it is hard to liberate the continent with a limited supply of infantry on the first few turns or wait until the later turns when I have sufficiently built a transport force. This gives the German an advantage. 11 IPCs per turn make up for 2 inf per turn. Under my strat I am hitting the German as soon as possible.

Then we have Western Europe. Now there’s nothing wrong with your strat. I use a slightly different variation of it myself in fact. However, sometimes I don’t like the Russians getting all the credit and keeping some “historically realism.” Now under your strat I can only get 10 inf or maybe 12 into Western Europe per turn. That is simply not enough to take Western Europe, especially if the German plans for it ahead of time. Under my strat. I hit Germany with such overwhelming force that the only way they can possibly stop it is with fighter defense – and even then the outcome is very unlikely for them. This takes away too much from the Eastern Front, which also needs those fighters. And when Germany can’t take back Western Europe, the 6 IPC loss is unbearable for him. He has lost the game and must hold out for long as possible in Germany itself.

TG Moses VI

“you can swing around South America very early and tie up the US in the Atlantic for a few turns with a pretty large navy operating out of South Africa. I believe he’s saying your strategy is overly susceptible to it.”

I will work to correct and counterstroke that move as soon as possible. Be sure to respond with my answer as soon as possible.

Yanny

Well, your strategy doesn’t allocate extra defense to hold against Japaneese BBs/Carriers in the 3rd or 4th turn. That force establishing a South African IC, and defending it, is going to be hard to Oust, and Germany is going to have a few turns of breathing space.

TG Moses VI

“That force establishing a South African IC, and defending it, is going to be hard to Oust, and Germany is going to have a few turns of breathing space.”

If this happens, then I mentioned it in my notes. Here we go

“Depending on the strength of the German presence, you may want to refrain from these attacks and instead just try to take Libya. If you find that the German may be too powerful to handle even with 6 inf., 1 ARM, you may consider moving the 2 ftrs and 1 bomber from Britain to Algeria or even hold off on the Normandy Invasion for a turn.”

Even then my strat has a fail safe against such a defense. Again, I help slow the Japan down and force the Germans to further divert forces in Africa (taking away somewhat from Russia depending on how much they want to devot in order to counter). As for the Japanese IC, that’s 15 IPCs and a transport just to move forces to take South Africa. Then there’s operation cost. After the first turn, Japan can only supply 2 inf or 2 ARM.

TG Moses VI

Now that I had the time to overlook my strategy I found a some weaknesses in a South Africa IC by the Japanese.

“Well, your strategy doesn’t allocate extra defense to hold against Japaneese BBs/Carriers in the 3rd or 4th turn. That force establishing a South African IC, and defending it, is going to be hard to Oust, and Germany is going to have a few turns of breathing space.”

What strikes me as intresting is that I really don’t have to worry about a South Africa IC as it happens. One quick look at the A&A map and we see it’ll take at least 4 turns to reach South Africa. What I see as odd is that shouldn’t South Africa have already fallen to the Germans? I would think so. Another problem, since this does take 4 turns, on USA’s turn I am already landing at Normandy.

Here’s what my notes say, “Also this is one of the only turns where I will allow America to make a different purchase like a bomber or ftr. It all depends on how many more inf. are needed in Europe or Africa.”

Therefore after Normandy, I can start transfering forces to Africa if need be.

Then there’s another problem. It is not until turn 6 does a African IC become a problem to me (Japan cannot place an IC on a recently conquered territory and you can only place newly purchased units in territories where you have owned a IC since the beginning of your turn). By turn 6 the game should well be over for Germany and then the Allies can turn their full might to Japan.

TG Moses VI

“you can swing around South America very early and tie up the US in the Atlantic for a few turns with a pretty large navy operating out of South Africa. I believe he’s saying your strategy is overly susceptible to it.”

Now that I have had the proper time to research this question, I think I can handle it. In this strategy I will use the “Great Lure.” Here’s what I do to make sure I keep Japanese forces in the Atlantic. On America’s T1, instead of counterattacking from Western USA, I instead shift my forces to the Alaskan Sea Zone. What this does is place me in direct opposition to Japan’s merchant fleet for T2. Seeing this, Japan must now move its navy to counter this move. I have now saved 2 turns in which the Japanese are bottlenecked in the Pacific.

TG Moses VI

Or if you are not completely satisfied with that answer, let’s say Japan makes an attempt at moving in the Atlantic. Now their task force is pretty big, but now they have to go around the South America to reach Atlantic Channels. Only problem is that it takes 5 turns in order to that. By then, I would’ve landed all my forces at Normandy. In my next move I reinforce my positions by purchasing a combining the two American and UK fleets together. 11 transports and one carrier w/ 2 ftrs seems quite a formidable defense force, no? I will win 99% of the time against even the strongest Japanese task force.

But at least I take pride in what I do, which is more than what I can say for you.

TG DON’T BE GIVIN ANY HOLY THAN THOUGH CRAP TO ME. I WILL PERSONELLY HACK YOUIR COMPUTER AND BLOW YOU LIKE YA MOMMA DID TO ME.

Mr Ghoul

Your going to blow him?!?!?

Hack my comp, go ahead, Bring it bitch.

Someone who spells that bad can’t be that bright.

FinsterniS

This is hard to make a powerfull allies strategy since Axis are leading the game. The action of the German/Japan on the first turn can easely compromise any strategy, a fortiori Axis tend/must be in some way unpredictable to beat the allies juggernaut.

Most game ive played all axis force were playing on two major front since they decide, often in turn 3, to concentrate on a front.

Often the game is psychological & strategical, so i never really build a main generic strategy, but i really find your ideas interesting. You are rigth about the turn 1 of the US; i should be defencive, ive never (never!) played as the US but most of my opponent/allies US seem to be really nervous.

Also, i think the US should not concentrate too much on germany, japan is expending fast and when attaking russia it help a lot Germany. The best way to make germany in trouble is to stop japan from attaking massively russia. But sure, sometime (often) you cannot concentrate all your IPC on japan…

TG Moses VI

Anonymous or “Osoma”

“TG DON’T BE GIVIN ANY HOLY THAN THOUGH CRAP TO ME. I WILL PERSONELLY HACK YOUIR COMPUTER AND BLOW YOU LIKE YA MOMMA DID TO ME.”

Please, if you must insult me, then at least do it correctly. And I’m also interested in how you’re going to hack my computer and “blow” me. Is there some sort of way you can all of a sudden get into my computer and get it to explode on me? I hope you are not serious, as I have never done anything to you.

TG Moses VI

FinsterniS, it’s good to see someone who still thinks the Axis can wipe the floor with the Allies. There is certainly a psychological and metagame involved when playing Axis and Allies, as with any competitive game. The metagame is as complex as any strategy encountered in a competition. So a confident Axis player (and those are hard to come by) definitely does have the benefit of not only setting the tempo but pressuring the Allies into making mistakes.

As for Japan, hopefully be the end of the 4th turn I can start bringing the war to Japan’s home front. What does that mean? Well, I don’t mean building a huge Navy (though you’re free to do one), but making sure that Africa does not fall into Japanese hands and that Russia can turn full force to defend the Kremlin. With Germany on its last leg, UK and USA should be able to mop up whatever is left.

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