AARHE: Phase 3: Income

[Guerrilla Guy]

Ok, I understand your reasoning there. I think then that it should be a separate action of “engagement”. So movement and raiding is the same turn, or maybe you should have to be in the same SZ in order to raid… Either way, it would still be simple to the point… I hate adding new phases but this one shouldn’t be much…

GG

[tekkyy]

nah don’t need to add a new phase
if you agree with my reasoning
we just make it a small thing that does not take up combat moves

how about just roll the dice in collect income? after revealing your log

[Guerrilla Guy]

OK, but don’t we collect income at the end of our turn? How can you use a fleet to protect a convoy if it isn’t in combat?

GG

[tekkyy]

yeah
if you have a fleet at a convoy box (at collect income phase) you are protecting convoys, protecting a convoy route checkpoint

3 convoy SZ
we could consider changing it to 2
ie. 2 explicitly defined SZ + 2 implicitly defined SZ

(implicitly defined SZs being the start and destination SZs)

shortest path idea
is it strictly shortest path?
or do we let it be shortest +1?

eg. Australia to UK
via Med Sea = 8 SZs
via South Africa = 9 SZs
via Panama = 10 SZs
(and letting Australia ship to UK via Panama might be a bit far stretched)

land then sea transport
what sea port can Kenya use?
and does the restrictions change as Germany takes African territories?

[Guerrilla Guy]

OK, you addressed a lot there!

3 Convoy SZ:
I thought at first of actually making it 4, of course the convoy is only declared as being “started” i.e. Germany gets word of convoys delivering goods in Southampton, Subs are on the prowl to find the destination; Or in simplier terms that mumbo jumbo means that when you buy a convoy all you have to do is say “I am purchasing a convoy”. The enemy may know that you are transporting goods but he doesn’t know from where. So even if we add 4 “combat” SZ’s all of them are still hidden.

Shortest Path:
I made that rule to avoid people from making some wild path that goes around the Cape of South America, giving them the ability to hide a convoy in waters that weren’t even traversed during WW2, or rarely and never by convoys. It was to fulfill the “Historical” claim of this project. But The Mediterraenean even being the shortest route, may not be the one used. Since no Convoys are active at the beginning of the game, it is possible that Anglo Egypt will fall therefore making a Med convoy impossible and if the British want to avoid a convoy route they can’t protect the easiest, they can invest in one after they lose the canal. I said all that to say that I like your idea better 8-) but I had to explain why I went the way I did…

Land then Sea Transport:
Kenya actually may be the best port to choose. If you chose South Africa you can only get 4 IPC’s (Including Madagascar), whereas Kenya can get 6. And no the all rules are in affect even if Africa falls to the Germans. They have to use ports to get supplies back home. Why would they need to change? It adds an element that the Germans didn’t deal with but would have had to.

GG

[tekkyy]

wait a minute
we collect income at the beginning of the turn!
we had this since phase 1

but nothing wrong
you just don’t get to attack convoy SZs in the last minute (because its occupied by hostile units) to protect convoys

planning next turn
by the way UK and Japan player now has to think about its purchasing next turn
UK needs to decide how Australia’s IPCs are used
if some of all are to be used overseas you decide this turn and write in on the convoy sheet

Kenya actually may be the best port to choose. If you chose South Africa you can only get 4 IPC’s (Including Madagascar), whereas Kenya can get

wait I dont get this
is this about a territory can only use its own sea port or adjacent friendly sea port?
so Kenya can’t use West Africa’s sea port?

[Guerrilla Guy]

Actually I meant that we collect income at the beginning (my bad). That will work… 2 Options then are possible regarding attacking the defending naval units: 1, you need to destroy all enemy naval units covering the convoy before you can shoot at the convoy itself, or option 2, convoy covering naval units can only shoot at the enemy (in combat) in hopes you kill enough stuff to make the attack not profitable (always can hit convoys regardless of cover)… If I am not seeing that you have already said this ignore this part, and just correct anything in the rules.

Exactly, write in makes in an interesting and useful addition to the game.

No, the rule I wrote was: “Your route may now transfer IPC’s from the home territory and all adjacent territories to to the destination territory.” Or when you build a convoy route, the starting territory can collect income from its territory and all adjacent territories including adjacent Island territories via adjacent SZ’s. South Africa gets its own income (2), Kenya (1), and Madagascar (adjacent SZ) (1), making a total convoy income of 4 IPC’s. Kenya gets its own (1), Madagascar (1), South Africa (1), IEA (1), and FEA (1), making an income of 6.

GG

[tekkyy]

@Guerrilla:

2 Options then are possible regarding attacking the defending naval units

I’ll probably go for option 1 (must destroy all naval units, or making them retreat, defending a convoy SZ before you can attack convoy)

for option 2
we need a way for the convoy player to reveal that its a convoy SZ when enemy enters
and then enemy gets to choose whether to attack military units or convoys
and we need to think how to fit it into naval combat, which is already complex

No, the rule I wrote was:

but yeah, from my understand it means “Kenya”'s income can’t be transported via “French West Africa”
that ok for Kenya
but for territories with no adjacent sea shore territories it’ll be restrictive

but that too can be ok
it just makes inland territories income can be transported very far by land only, or mainly by sea
but not both a long trip in land and long trip in sea

[Guerrilla Guy]

Well the easiest way for you to reveal it is to say that you have entered a convoy zone. If this is to easy, you can always say “You have entered one of my Convoy Zones, but you must roll a 3 or less on a 6 sided die in order to attack.” (BTW, you would only have to do that once, all subsequent units are considered to know where the convoy is). And the enemy can decide, “I’m attacking your convoy.” Or, “I am not attacking your convoy.” Which he must follow through with whichever one is his choice. He can only decide to attack a convoy at the beginning of his combat round even though it is carried out in the collect income phase. BTW, is it your collect income phase or his? I assume his, giving you a chance to attack his fleet if you want to.

Kenya merely acts as a “supply” depot, collecting the resources from itself and all adjacent territories and shipping them out. Kenya’s Income could be transported via French West Africa if you wanted to make it a port, it will be able to collect 4 IPC’s that Kenya cannot “reach” in British Controlled Africa. The more money touching a territory the better. Also if a port is captured the convoy could possibly fall under Blockade Rules with a twist. You have to pay 1 IPC for each Territory you are transferring goods from per turn making some territories just not worth it. An idea to throw into the mix.

GG

[tekkyy]

precisely are you going for option 1 or option 2?

yeah dice roll during convoy player’s collect income turn

Kenya merely acts as a “supply” depot, collecting the resources from itself and all adjacent territories and shipping them out. Kenya’s Income could be transported via French West Africa if you wanted to make it a port, it will be able to collect 4 IPC’s that Kenya cannot “reach” in British Controlled Africa.

Ok so income CAN travel multiple land spaces before reach the sea.
And still no port restrictions right? That is, all sea shore territories can potential be a “port”.

[Guerrilla Guy]

Option 1…

I actually was thinking that when you start to “conquer” inland that the multiple land territory income.

All sea territories can be potential ports yes… The thing I am not so sure about is inland territories having the kind of transport abilities mentioned on a base convoy. FWA was adjacent to Kenya so it could do that. So now you are suggesting that I could add Anglo Egypt and FWA to the “Convoy” income. I am willing to do this but you need a way to “upgrade” your convoy in order to do this. So here it is:

In order to upgrade Convoys you must pay the cost of the convoy to the bank again. You can now mark “2” on the convoy level box next to the affected convoy. It may transport double the amount of income and can transport goods from territories 2 inland or adjacent to adjacent territories.

Like it?

GG

[tekkyy]

um French Western Africa is not adjacent to Kenya

anyway
so you DON’T want income to able to travel more than 1 land space before going to the sea?

[Guerrilla Guy]

Didn’t say that, and I meant FEA (sorry I don’t have the map in front of me)… I made the system limited because tell me how you can limit how far your production can go if all you need is Anglo-Egypt (For Example) open and a convoy in South Africa (shortest route, least amount of cash spent) if every British Territory in Africa-Asia is connected? Then all you would need is one in Australia… It can only be limited to the Adjacent Territories unless you have a write in “expanding” element right on the log. Or unless you have another idea? Personal opinion the one I just posted is the simpliest solution to overextending Convoys…

GG

[tekkyy]

yeah ok income can only travel 1 land territories before entering the sea
(or maybe we could make it 2 land territories)

but I think we might have to dump the convoy “SZ” idea
and back to convoy “route”
ie all SZs on the route is “hitable”

I mean Australia has 4 paths which is shortest or shortest+1 SZs

Australia -> UK
9 via Med Sea
9 via South Africa
9 via Panama
8 via South America

[Guerrilla Guy]

I am up for all hittable, just give me a roll every time… Convoys weren’t always on the route, and sometimes weren’t always found, so they can’t be that easy to hit… If you don’t want to upgrade Convoys that is fine with me. Once you starting heading inland you will have to buy IC’s, that will make for some interesting strats…

GG

[tekkyy]

I am up for all hittable, just give me a roll every time

this is about search roll before attack roll?
don’t see why we need it
just lower the change of the one roll

each hostile naval unit (but not transports) can hit on a 1…or maybe 2
2 IPC is destroyed
cant destroy more than the value of convoys going through the SZ of course

Once you starting heading inland you will have to buy IC’s, that will make for some interesting strats…

right, we’ll leave it at maximum of 1 land movement for sea bound convoys

[Guerrilla Guy]

Got it, forgot about attacking the convoy, I thought it was auto hit… Make it Hit on 1 for now, we can change it after playtesting it… I think this about wraps it up… Have we missed anything?

GG

[tekkyy]

Actually hitting on 1 is quite weak compared to OOB/LHTR.
Wasn’t it something like auto hit  1 IPC per German submarine?

Maybe we need to make it hit on a 3, or even auto hit 1 IPC.

[tekkyy]

Convoy

An IPC path consisting of sea zone(s) is a “Convoy”. IPC must enter the sea from the source territory or an adjacent territory. It may then travel to the destination via the minimal number of sea zone or one more sea zone. For example, Australia’s income to be spent at United Kingdom may only travel 8 or 9 sea zones.
Convoy are decided and recorded by the player at end of “Collect Income” phase. It is revealed at beginning of the player’s next “Collect Income” phase. Each hostile naval unit besides AP (transport) in a convoy sea zone may perform a convoy attack roll. 1 IPC of friendly convoys in that sea zone is destroyed on a roll of 3 or less. Damage allocation procedure is the same as team combat causality.

Convoy ships were not safe in the sea. Over 1500 allied ships were sunk in 1942 alone. 8300 US merchant mariners were killed at sea in WWII. Convoys are time consuming and the war economy depends on logistics planning, particular for UK and Japan. Due to reducing flexibility as convoys approach their destination, majority of sunken allied convoys were in North Atlantic.

[Guerrilla Guy]

Actually I thought it would be better if you could “hide” your convoy routes… But for now I like how we got it setup… We can work out the bugs later…

GG