If you are playing Revised with a bid then one possibility is to add a 2nd G transport to the Med fleet instead of adding units to Libya/Algeria. It doubles the transport capacity and can make the Russian player weary on an amphibious attack on the Caucasus/Ukraine.
Like mentioned above the drawback is that additional units sent to Africa won’t be used on the Eastern front and the 2nd transport will be sunk with the rest of the fleet if the Allies decide to do so.
Why should I build in the Baltic?
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I agree, that was an option, but she would have conceded some of the following to the Allies: WE, Nor, Kar, Belo, and Ukr as the UK or Rus held all of those prior to Germany’s turn.
Meaning if she commited all her planes and fleet to take out my trns she would have had to expose her tanks to retake Belo, Kar, and Ukr or of course concede them all to Russia for another turn.
Either way Germany was going to lose something.
And UK only loses 1 turn (the purchase of new trns) for drop off, since the UK’s next turn I used the trns as fodder anyway to take out the Germans. Meaning I didn’t unload new units that turn anyway.
So either way UK only loses one drop off.
Ultimately, I think she did the right thing by using her ftrs elsewhere on the mainland, the real problem was leaving the 2 ftrs on the AC, but again, if you are going to pull those ftrs, I really don’t see the worth in buying the AC to begin with.
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And even if SHE (aka ME) would have done that I would have traded all my fighters for the possibility of killing transports, if he chose them as deaths.
I probably should have pulled the fighters and let you sink the carrier easier…dunno. I have 20/20 hindsight as does everyone else who don’t wear primerose goggles that is.
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I agree, that was an option, but she would have conceded some of the following to the Allies: WE, Nor, Kar, Belo, and Ukr as the UK or Rus held all of those prior to Germany’s turn.
Meaning if she commited all her planes and fleet to take out my trns she would have had to expose her tanks to retake Belo, Kar, and Ukr or of course concede them all to Russia for another turn.
Either way Germany was going to lose something.
And UK only loses 1 turn (the purchase of new trns) for drop off, since the UK’s next turn I used the trns as fodder anyway to take out the Germans. Meaning I didn’t unload new units that turn anyway.
So either way UK only loses one drop off.
Ultimately, I think she did the right thing by using her ftrs elsewhere on the mainland, the real problem was leaving the 2 ftrs on the AC, but again, if you are going to pull those ftrs, I really don’t see the worth in buying the AC to begin with.
Well, if Germany REALLY had such a poor position, the game was already lost regardless, don’t you think? So it should really be a question about Germany’s responses to other earlier Allied moves, instead of a single question about what should have been done with fighters at that point. I have to admit I’m not sure how the Allies got to take W. Europe and Norway that early if the Baltic fleet still existed.
(edit) woops hit the “notify” instead of “modify” button. Then confirmed. Ohhh well, reported me own post.
To be more specific, if UK takes Norway, that MUST leave UK transports in range of the Baltic fleet. If the Baltic fleet is blocked, the Germans can use air to clear out a weak block, or the Baltic fleet and fighters to clear a strong block. Or the Baltic fleet can just be used to retake Norway with W. Eur fighters and infantry from Germany; regardless, the Baltic fleet’s existence gives Germany some options in the Atlantic.
But for Germany to have lost Norway AND Western Europe, AND not be in position to make a rather nasty German naval/air counterattack; it’s just unclear to me how that could have happened.
I don’t think it’s a matter of having to trade fighters for transports. If he had taken transports as casualties, you probably run away after killing the transports unless you can kill some expensive ships at a good fighter price, which is still good for Germany. If he had taken strong defenders (destroyer, battleship) as initial casualties, of course you stick around, because at that point your air force will be mighty against a lot of puny transports.
Later on, if you don’t have a German navy, and you only have air, and say he has two transports escorted by a carrier, THEN, it’s trading fighters for transports. But in that particular situation, you still had German naval units to take as casualties; I don’t think you really had to trade fighters.
Anyways, I don’t know what the board position was, oh wellz. (/edit)
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Let us also not forget that when Germany attacks the allied fleet she has to kill off the Russians, the British and the Americans…that’s at least twice the fleet on defense then can attack at any given time.
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Except that the Russians consist of ONE SUB. And the Americans are 2 TRN and 1 DST intially. Not much of a “fleet”.
And on attack Germany gets to add extra FIGs and a BOM to the mix, more than negating those 4 units.
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Yea, well, it was more like 2 DD, 1 BB, 6 Trans, 1 Sub from the get go, he stayed well out of range for 2 rounds to keep from having that problem. By turn 4 it was 2 BBs and 2 ACs added onto that and more transports.
So no, there wasn’t a bat’s chance in hades my puny 5 plane, 1 bomber, 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 1 transport, 2 submarine fleet was going to get a shot and killing his fleet. My best chance was to get decent to better then decent dice defending against part of it. If I remember correctly, I got slightly worse then decent dice.
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Hhhmmm, sounds like you were not aggressive enough.
You gave him FOUR TURNS to build up and consolidate his fleets, instead of going after the pieces before they could form up.
And don;t say you could not reach. In 4 turns the Baltic Fleet can sail as far as jNew Zealand, and I know he did not stage his Allied fleets THAT far away.
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No, they were in Sea Zone 9 and Sea Zone 2 until he combined them on R3 and then attacked, I think, on R4.
At that point, I was getting my typical dice nad fighting to keep Russia from walking into Berlin unchallenged…couldn’t reall afford to loose 5 fighters and a bomber to reduce him to a damaged battleship.
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And you never staged your baltic Fleet forward to SZ6? Putting the staging in SZ2 in range? Or mvoes to SZ7 to threaten African landings and threaten both SZ2 and SZ9?
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Let’s pretend I put the fleet in SZ 6.
Now I have 1 BB, 2 DD, 6 Transports, 1 AC and 2 Figs in SZ 2 and 2 SS, 1 AC, 2 Fig, 1 TRN, 1 DD in Sea Zone 6.
How is this better off? Now I cannot use infantry in Germany to hit Karelia/Finland immediately. now I cannot use carrier based fighters in Ukraine or Belorussia or Archangelsk and return them to the carrier. Now I cannot use infantry from W. Europe to hit E. Europe or Karelia. AND I still cannot attack the combined Allied fleet, waiting for them to attack me.
I’d rather wait in SZ 5 where I am much more flexible then SZ 6 where i’m nothing but a waiting target.
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And sitting there you ar eunable to prevent an Allied fleet build up.
Which is better, shutting down UK and US shuck for a few turns, or 1 move slower getting German INF to Karelia?
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I prefer getting sitting in SZ 5 to be more flexible since putting my fleet in SZ 6 has no bearing on the Allied fleet build up. At best it forces them to build in SZ 8 instead of SZ 3 and that prevents allied landings in FIN/NOR until Englands done making fleet, then they build in SZ 12 and land in Africa.
Meanwhile, 40% of my airforce is out of range of the Russian front.
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That is what tanks are for.
and if SZ6 is not working, move to 7.
The point is, if you cede control of the Atlantic by just sitting in the baltic, then you probably ARE wating your money on a Baltic AC.
Build your fleet, then eitehr use it to take out a few units, prevent early landings in Norway and Africa.
But if you are just using it to be just a guardian of Germany and Eastern coasts (which is an acceptible use of that fleet), then don;t complain about the Allies building their fleets up outside your range. If you go purely defensive with the Baltic Fleet, that is what the allies are going to do. And when they are done, your fleet is sunk. That is jsut th way it works.
So…
Either use teh fleet to protect Germany and Eastern while you drive hard on Russia with all you’ve got and deal with the Allied landing swhen they start, or use that fleet and challenge the Atlantic with naval and air.But don’t complain because the Allies see which way you are going and adjust their strat accordingly.