Germany Strikes Britain on G1

[Zeppelin80]

The last two times I played Axis and Allies the German player on G1 took a gamble I had thought about, but never had the guts to try.  He loaded his transport in the Baltic w/a tank and an inf, his bomber, and he took every fig (including a kamikaze from SE Europe) and attacked England.  The first time I could only take out one fig with AA, and the second time I took out nothing.  Defending from there was ruff, and he eventually took it with a single tank landing in England.  Let me tell you, this absolutely kills the Allied effort.Â

UK can’t build anything or collect money until it wins back England, which it must send its’ its in Eastern Canada to do (and you better hope you take it back with the tank, otherwise you see no IPC’s until the end of the Britain’s 2nd turn).  America then needs to land troops there to further defend England.  On top of all of that, Germany walks away with 30IPC at the end of G1 and the additional IPC’s that England is worth.  At this point Russia should be crying because from here on out as their partners are going to be delayed by 2-3 rounds, and that is all Germany will need to finish them off with as they now have a lot of spending cash.  This is essentially the best way I have seen for the Axis to win the game. (aside from the aircraft carrier purchase strategy I’ve read here that I have not had a chance to try yet)

My question is, has anyone run into this strategy?  Does anyone know how to stop it with Russia during R1 aside from taking out the Baltic Fleet with Russian Figs?….as I have tried this and it doesn’t always work.  Any help here would be great, because we will be playing this weekend and if this G1 attack is successful again, the game is just brutal to play out.Â

[newpaintbrush]

1.  You cannot ‘kamikaze’ from Southern Europe.  It is not allowed to have a fighter take off unless that fighter can also land that turn.

2.  You can fly two fighters in from USSR.

3.  Germany going after UK usually takes one of three forms; five transports in Baltic on first turn for invasion second turn, or rolling for long range fighters with Germany first turn, or building two or three transports first turn followed by a five transport build.  You just beef up London is all.  Pretty simple.

[Zeppelin80]

Thanks for the response newpaintbrush.  Let me comment on your comments so that people understand where I am coming from……

1.  You cannot ‘kamikaze’ from Southern Europe.  It is not allowed to have a fighter take off unless that fighter can also land that turn. REPLY: This is a house rule of ours.  If you choose to have a fighter not return from combat due to movement limits, then you can do that.

2.  You can fly two fighters in from USSR.  REPLY: This is a good suggestion.  I’m not sure if the fighters can make it from russia on R1, but I will check when I have the board infront of me again.

3.  Germany going after UK usually takes one of three forms; five transports in Baltic on first turn for invasion second turn, or rolling for long range fighters with Germany first turn, or building two or three transports first turn followed by a five transport build.  You just beef up London is all.  Pretty simple.  **REPLY: I’m not talking about Germany going after Britain on G2 with multiple transports, I’m talking about Germany going at Britain with the Transport they start the game with in the Baltic (1arm & 1inf) and their entire air force (using house rule described above).  This is were the problem really lies.  If Russia can’t knock out the German Baltic fleet in R1, then Germany if free to make a go at Britain in G1. **

[newpaintbrush]

1.  Ah.

2.  Sure you can make it, on a Revised board.  Picture the board.  Sea zone northeast of UK that borders Norway.  Second sea zone to the east of that sea zone that borders Karelia and Archangel.  Third move is into Archangel.  And fourth is into Russia.  (That’s the route I take for UK fighter reinforcement into Russia.)  Of course, you can fly the other way . . .

3.  UK should have no problem against a NORMAL attack.  Problem is, your house rule allowing kamikaze attacks is JUST like giving Germany Long Range Aircraft for FREE.

Normally, German Sea Lion air attack round one variation is chancy because you have to sink a lot of IPCs into tech dice, if you succeed, the attack is still chancy (first you have to get the tech roll, then you have to win the battle, then you will likely lose most of your air force, you only get 38 IPCs from Great Britain to rebuild your air force against future Allied transport attacks, Russia attacks with impunity because you have almost no units placed on that first turn.)

The ultimate killer is the fact that you sunk IPCs into tech, so Russia has less to worry about.  That’s what makes it so chancy.

But if you can kamikaze, you just don’t need tech dice.  So if you succeed in the attack, Germany wins easily - it has to rebuild its air force, but Russia can’t really attack as well because of all the German units Germany builds first turn.

In particular, under normal circumstances, Germany can afford ONE transport and use the rest for tech dice in an all or nothing attack.  But if you kamikaze, you don’t need tech dice, so you can build two or even three transports and get a death lock on the UK. So the Germans should push on to victory.

–

Basically, I think giving fighters kamikaze attacks is a very unbalancing idea.  OH well, heh heh.  Not my playing group.

–

Figure the defense out for yourself.

USSR can send two fighters in, and take out one German fighter.  If it takes out the German fighter, it must leave tanks in the Ukraine, which means those USSR tanks are dead with the German counterattack next turn.

What’s the German attack?  Off the top of my head - one infantry, one tank, six fighters, and one bomber.  Defense is one antiaircraft gun, one bomber, two infantry, one artillery, one tank, two fighters (potentially four).  Assume the latter, say you fly fighters into UK.

13333 3334 vs AA shot / 12223 4444

That alone makes a German attack into the UK unlikely to succeed, even if you miss with all the AA shots.  Once the first casualties are taken, Germany’s attack power gets cut down quickly, while UK’s defense power gets cut down only moderately.  (Assume that you WILL take the bomber as a first casualty).  Now factor in the AA shots, and you actually have a pretty good chance.

If Russia takes out the Ukraine fighter, it’s 13333 334 vs AA shot / 12223 4444; a clear win for the Allies.  If you want extra insurance, that’s the way to go.

[A Former User]

I really think you should change that house rule ASAP it makes for a very unfair game especially with the German opening thats possible here.
At least you should change it so you can’t do it in the first game round.

I just did a check on my calc to see how the battle of england would look like if they go all out on Britain it came up with these results
Attacker wins by 72,7 %

27.3%: left with nothing.

16.7%: left with 1 Arm, 2 Fig, 1 Bom.

14.3%: left with 1 Arm, 1 Fig, 1 Bom.

12.3%: left with 1 Arm, 1 Bom.

11.5%: left with 1 Arm, 3 Fig, 1 Bom.

7.6%: left with 1 Arm.

5.7%: left with 1 Arm, 4 Fig, 1 Bom.

3.4%: left with 1 Arm, 5 Fig, 1 Bom.

1%: left with 1 Arm, 6 Fig, 1 Bom

Think of it this way, the game was build with rules that didn’t include kamikazes for germany and therefore balanced out to represent this, if you are going to use this anyway, you will need to find a way to restore the balance to make the game fun and playable…

I don’t have a proposal on to how to do this as this would imo require a lot more math and playtesting to do, I’m basically just saying that you should either get rid of that house rule or at least change it so you can’t use it in the first cycle.
-Daniel

[Guest]

There is another move to make to reduce the risk even WITH German Kazes on G1…

USSR SUB to SZ6.

Not a major issue, but it is one more thing that Germany has to fight through in order to attack UK, and if Sea Lion fails, then the German fleet is a sitting duck for Allied forces, removing the threat of future Sea Lions for the remainder of the game.

The USSR FIGs to UK is the same method that Darth used to block my theoretical Sea Lion Scare tactic in Classic (and as such, the SLS was a TOTAL failure as an 8 IPC Axis Bid, RR Strat)
And yes, attacking Ukraine on R1 will indeed remove a FIG from the equation.

Beyond that, if you are going to allow Kaze FIGs, then UK has to take her chances, and the game comes down to dice on G2.

Not a very fun way to play.  Why bother setting up the board?  Just roll the UK battle and see who wins.  If UK holds, Germany is toast, Allies win.  If Germany wins, Russia falls in short order, Axis wins.

BTW:  Using the simulator, with the 2 Russia FIGs present AND adjusting the German OOL to make the ARM (assuming Germany transports 1 INF and 1 ARM) survive battle to occupy UK, the win percentage for Germany drops to 8.2%.  If UK loses the BOM first, Germany’s chances drop to 7.8%

[Zeppelin80]

ncscswitch - thanks for the thoughts.  You are right.  There is no point to set up the board as the two times that the take Britain on G1 strategy was employed it was successful and the Axis won both time in a matter of a few hours and the those hours were very boring and bad.  I think the kamikaze house rule is going to be gone before our next session on Friday.

Malus - I’m starting to think that we will get rid of it, but I will have to run that by the other 2 of the 3 core players.  If you take away the Kamikaze style attacks, then I believe only 1fig could get to Britain and back, and that pretty much eliminate that as an option.  Thanks guys, I greatly appreciate the fresh view on the situation!  I will strong arm a house rule change here.  The kamikaze attacks tend to be used a handful of times a game, so it will be interesting to see how people adjust.

[Guest]

Actually it is 2 FIGs that can make it without the Kaze rule… Western and Norway.  And of course the BOM can reach.

Before you push for a removal of the Kaze rule, try taking the Allies next game and do the FIG transfer from Russia and drop their odds to 1 in 16 of succeeding in their strike on London.

THAT may make them more willing to change the rules…