Only useful axis is Germany

[Doppelbock]

Terrain and tactical situations really do have an effect on how effective any given unit can be. I think it’s an oversimplification to say that weak tanks cost Japan the War (but that’s a whole 'nother topic in itself).

I do think that with the right kind of map a Japanese army could do pretty well in this game.

[djensen]

There are a few problems with the Japanese armies. Mostly dealing with lack of units.

• The highest close assault of any infantry is 6. I’m no a historian so I don’t even know if they had anything equaivalent to a bazooka or PIAT.

• Lack of heavy armor. Again, not a historian so maybe they din’t have heacy armor.

• Lack of anit-tank guns. The Ho-Ni is a good start but something like the PAK40 is needed. I would have to think that as the war raged on the calibur of the anti-tank guns had to increase.

But maybe Japan will be fixed with the new Contested Skies expansion in March.

[grandmastafargus]

JAPS SUCK they are a disgrace to the axis powers

[Commander]

@grandmastafargus:

JAPS SUCK they are a disgrace to the axis powers

wow, ignorance
Japan had the best Navy and Airforce in the world before the battle of Midway
and we won that battle by luck, if we would have lost that battle
the chances of us winning against the Japanese would have been extremely thin

Italy was the disgrace to the axis, no offense to any Italians
their army, airforce and navy were so outdated, it’s not even funny
plus their commanders were as bad as they could get
after a year or 2, Italy became literally the puppet of Germany
they needed Germany for almost everything

ok now for the topic on hand
you have to remember that Japan was only beginning to industrialize
itself, pretty much the modern Japan was only about 60 years old
when it entered into WW2, and look how much of an advancement in technology
they did and all the trouble they cost against countries that were already
set up, like China, Russia(before becoming the USSR), The US, and England

[Commander]

@Doppelbock:

Terrain and tactical situations really do have an effect on how effective any given unit can be. I think it’s an oversimplification to say that weak tanks cost Japan the War (but that’s a whole 'nother topic in itself).

I do think that with the right kind of map a Japanese army could do pretty well in this game.

yeah, especially with a jungle map, they would be the best

yeah if you say that Japan lost because of their weak tanks
then how come they were beating the crap out of China, The US(before Midway), and the UK
and pretty easy i might say

[grandmastafargus]

@Commander:

@grandmastafargus:

JAPS SUCK they are a disgrace to the axis powers

wow, ignorance

Italy was the disgrace to the axis, no offense to any Italians
their army, airforce and navy were so outdated, it’s not even funny
plus their commanders were as bad as they could get
after a year or 2, Italy became literally the puppet of Germany
they needed Germany for almost everything

Talk about fucking ignorance. Dude u are a retard. Italy was amazing. Talk about fucking ignorant, we shoulda nuked ur ass just like we did the damn japs. Douche bag go eat some more rice.

PEACE

[GrimJesta]

Actually, unnecessay flaming sucks and shows ignorance. And lack of knowledge on the topic at hand.

Commander is basically right when it comes to Italy.  Did Italy “suck”? No. Italy was poorly equipped and poorly led.

Here’s some Italian WWII facts:

It’s a little known fact that Italy pioneered parachuting and the airborne soldier (1st combat jump 1918). By 1938 there were both national and Libyan paratroopers trained at Castel Benito, the first Italian parachute school located near Tripoli. When war broke out in 1940, 3 additional national battalions were formed two of which with the task of training and raising a parachute division by 1942.

The first paracadutisti to see action were the national and Libyan battalions during “Operation Compass” which were tasked with contesting the British advance in Cyrenaica during the withdrawal of the 10th Army. They successfully accomplished this, helping to slow and then arrest the British thrust into Tripolitania.

One of the most epic pages of military history, however, according to both British and German accounts, was written by the Folgore Division at El Alamein in North Africa. They had been trained and readied for the occupation of Malta planned for late Spring of 1942. Operation C3 (Italian code name) which was also supposed to see some of the first air-borne troops of this period in history, the (Aviotrasportabile) La Spezia Infantry Division, was cancelled however, when an overbearing Rommel jumped chain of command, asking Hitler to persuade Mussolini to give him carte blanche so that he could push on to the Nile and to glory.

Unfortunately, on November 3, 1942, the Folgore Div. was essentially destroyed as a large unit after yet another panicked Rommel withdrawal (once again achieved thanks to his disregard for logistics, and the strength of the Commonwealth forces). This caused the rout of the Italo-German Army, during which, Italian and German units who could not be autotransported (mostly the Italian divisions) fell prey, in a slow withdrawal march through the desert, to the pursuing Commonwealth units.

But before the final days, the Folgore Division was to cover itself in the “against all odds” glory reminiscent of Balaclava, Picket’s Charge, Vittorio Veneto and Omaha Beach:
Operation Lightfoot launched on October 24, 1942, was designed to break through the supposed “weak” Italian-held southern sector of the Alamein line where the Bologna, Brescia, Folgore and Pavia Divisions anchored the right flank. The British attack began with a devastating artillery barrage, followed by an all out assault by the 7th Armored and 44th Infantry divisions. However, all that was achieved by the Commonwealth at a high cost of life and equipment was a small lodgment, which was soon to be regained. In the following assaults between October 25 and November 4, 1942 units such as the 50th, 7th, 44th divisions, 1st and 2nd Free French and the Royal Hellenic Brigades, supported by artillery and armor, had not broken nor would they break through the southern sector. The Folgore used all the means at their disposal including the tactic of letting the enemy advance into a “cul-de-sac” and then counterattacking from all sides. They also used their 47mm AT guns from enfilade positions and Molotov cocktails to knock out even Matildas and Grants. In the initial British assault alone the Folgore had managed to destroy over 120 armored vehicles, inflicting over 600 casualties.

In the end, during the Rommel-imposed retreat, the Folgore led several bayonet charges rather than surrender. The Folgore’s fate was similar to that of the Bologna Inf.Div. which marched in the desert fifty hours without water, during the withdrawal from Alamein, chose to form a square against armor, holding the enemy off for many hours in the open, before surrendering exhausted and dying from dehydration. This, however, only after having beaten off three different assaults by infantry and armor in three days. Colonel Dall’Olio, commanding the Bologna, surrendered saying, “We are not firing because we haven’t the desire but because we have spent every round.” In a symbolic act of final defiance no one in the Bologna raised their hands. The Folgore’s fate, abandoned by the motorized Germans, was shared by the Bologna, Pavia, Trento, and the Brescia divisions. General Hughes of the 44th Infantry Division offered what was perhaps a simple and fitting eulogy for those truly extraordinary men, “I wish to say that in all my life I have never encountered soldiers like those of the Folgore.”

All that remained of the Folgore was about a small battalion, which fought on in Tunisia and made of Takruna another epic battle. The rest of the division: either casualties or captured in the desert.

Back on the mainland, a new paratrooper division was created by late 1942: the Nembo Parachute Division formed around the core of the 185th Folgore Regiment, which trained and raised the new division. First demployed in the Spring of 1943 against Yugoslav guerrilla near Gorizia, Italy, they used their commando tactics to completely pacify the area. Following this, in June 1943, the 184th and 183rd regiments were sent to Sardinia where the main Allied landing was expected while the 185th was deployed to Calabria.

When the Allies landed in Sicily in July 1943, the 185th was dispatched to fight the invaders but it was too late to affect the flood of men and materiel that washed over the island. It’s most important task now became that of protecting the withdrawal of the Italo-German forces to the mainland. But once in Calabria there was no rest for the weary, they continued to engage in furious fighting in the Aspromonte massif in order to delay the 8th Army’s advance. The bitterest battle was being fought against Canadian troops right as news of the so-called “armistice” of September 8 reached them. The “armistice” had in fact been conspired by Badoglio’s handful of rogue generals who alone knew of the plans to hand Italy over to the enemy.

The battalions of the Nembo chose sides, according to the personal loyalty of the commanding officer and/or the leadership the men recognized, which was either the King or Mussolini. Most of the 3rd Battalion decided to keep fighting with the Germans as did the 12th, both eventually joining with the 1st Fallschirmjäger Corps deployed around Rome. Other Para units of the Regio Esercito (Royal Army) such as Ciclone and X° Arditi, and para units of the Regia Marina and Aeronautica (Royal Navy and Air Force) such as San Marco’s NPs (Nuotatori Paracadutisti) and ADRA also remained with the Germans “per l’onore d’Italia” (for Italian honor).

By the time the landing at Anzio was two weeks old (Jan. 1944) a battalion of the Nembo Parachute Group training at Spoleto was rushed to help seal the beach-head, fighting alongside the 4th Fallschirmjäger. Between Jan. and June ‘44 Nembo Battalion won the admiration of their German comrades in the no quarter fighting at Anzio and for the defense of Rome. On May 4, 1945, Nembo was one of the last Italo-German units to surrender. The unit had been part of an overwhelming majority who continued to defend Italy as part of the RSI government. The RSI (Repubblica Sociale Italiana) while dealing with invasion on three fronts and a civil war managed to arm over 800 thousand Italian troops, fighting beside the Germans on all fronts, in and outside Italy, as opposed to the 28 thousand (“co-belligerent” Royal Army troops) which supported the Allies in Italy, mostly in non-combat roles.

Source:http://members.tripod.com/nembo/nembopage.html

The Italians didn’t “suck”, but they weren’t pivotal to the war because of poor equipment, poor supplying, poor treatment by the German command, and crappy Italian command. But they were capable of valiant and heroic feats and were capable of suprising the Allies with their tenacity.

-=Grim=-

[ezto]

Lets not forget that this is an adult forum. The Italians were the worst of the axis and theres no doubt about it.

[Commander]

@grandmastafargus:

@Commander:

@grandmastafargus:

JAPS SUCK they are a disgrace to the axis powers

wow, ignorance

Italy was the disgrace to the axis, no offense to any Italians
their army, airforce and navy were so outdated, it’s not even funny
plus their commanders were as bad as they could get
after a year or 2, Italy became literally the puppet of Germany
they needed Germany for almost everything

Talk about fucking ignorance. Dude u are a retard. Italy was amazing. Talk about fucking ignorant, we shoulda nuked ur a** just like we did the damn japs. Douche bag go eat some more rice.

PEACE

honestly you need to learn about history lol
and since you couldn’t come up with a good come back
you had to insult me lol, hey and i like rice, i’m puertorican after all lol
kids this days

and even Ezto and GrimJesta agrees with me lol
the Italian were capable of amazing things, especially when they were defending
and Rommel, showed how good the Italians could’ve fight
imaging if they had better weapons, wow, WW2 would have been a lot different
plus when i said they sucked, what i meant that compared to Japan and Germany
they weren’t in the same level as they were

on topic
yeah if avalon makes a jungle or forest map, japan would rule that map no problem

[grandmastafargus]

Im sorry for being an asshole, my bad. But i dont think that people give the italians enough credit. My grandfather was one of the “camice nere” now given he was only fighting for his country and is by no means a fascist but he fought valiantly and befriended some german soldiers. In some cases they were mistreated but for the most part they were militia. He was given a rifle and uniform and was instructed to meet up with a group of germans. He had no previous experience and exentually was awarded the Order of Saint Lazarus, the War Merit Cross, and an italian tank regiment medal. I guess just give them some credit. Personally i feel that they did alot with the little that they had. Maybe im wrong but for what its worth, im sorry. PEACE

[Commander]

@grandmastafargus:

Im sorry for being an a**hole, my bad. But i dont think that people give the italians enough credit. My grandfather was one of the “camice nere” now given he was only fighting for his country and is by no means a fascist but he fought valiantly and befriended some german soldiers. In some cases they were mistreated but for the most part they were militia. He was given a rifle and uniform and was instructed to meet up with a group of germans. He had no previous experience and exentually was awarded the Order of Saint Lazarus, the War Merit Cross, and an italian tank regiment medal. I guess just give them some credit. Personally i feel that they did alot with the little that they had. Maybe im wrong but for what its worth, im sorry. PEACE

no problem
but you have to admit they were the weak part of the alliance(not by choice, but they were)

on topic:
who do you guys think would be the biggest threat to Japan in a Jungle or Forest Map?

[ezto]

I like the Japs and think that they are capable of winning “ISLAND” matches. Lets remember that there were no armor clased in Islands.