@Grigoriy:
This. First you say that there is no god, but then you say it’s fine to believe in god. I’m thinking that maybe your problem isn’t with god of any brand, it’s with religion. (probably you’ve said that and I missed it).
Well, even if there was no tooth fairy, i wouldn’t mind people not believing in her. No contradiction. Non-Existance doesn’t hinder Believe.
@ the “scientific” argument:
All the “trillions” of pieces follow the same laws. There has been some work out there AFAIR that covers how much which constant is allowed to change and what would be the changes in the universe.
It is not statistics by the numbers, that is not a valid argument. You could claim though that all the physical constants, being as they are and allowing the existance of a stable universe which allows life to evolve is a sign of god. But even that claim is flawed:
The above mentioned work on “different constants” had one main conclusion: There are very few stable configurations of the main constants (and remember, there are only very few main constants, many are inter-related, so you can express “the lot” by “a handful”). These stable configurations lead to a stable universe, and from there on “the rest has to follow”. Means, if the universe is stable, from that follows there exist stable atoms, molecules, then reproducing molecules etc., all the steps to life which you argued show sign of a divine being.
They don’t. It’s called “anthropocentric argument”, btw.
For most people, they don’t see they pearly gates until their six feet under. So, Janus, if you need proof of God, why don’t you take action and find out….if you get what I am saying :wink:
It seems to me that those who believe would be the ones most anxious to meet their maker.
Perhaps you could go do some volunteer work in a nice, dangerous place. An eternity of bliss awaits you!
=p
I wont speak for Janus, but if i’m doomed to Hell, I don’t see a point in rushing things.
:wink:
ok, im pissed now. i finished typing my first post on “God?”, and it was REALLY long. apparently i took to long to finish typing, because when i submit it, it said Invalid Session, and erased everything i had typed. so i wont be retyping it for a little while while i calm down.
It’s okay Janus, I’d probably agree with your post anyways. :wink:
I think the main problem i have with the concept of god is it is too arbitrary (i really hate arbitrary things when they are forced down our throats). Its very easy to explain something with god, or to believe in god to calm us, but why does that make it so? it doesnt. it doesnt mean there is no god of course, but since i have heard this argument from christians many times (the simplest explanation is the best), as an attempt to prove god exists, it just makes me wonder, is it really that simple? it is if you take it at face value. “God created everything. Oh, ok, problem solved.” but not really, because it really explains nothing. all it does is simplify these things into one question, the question of god, which people than believe in. my question is this, if there is a God, whose God is it? certainly not the christian god (there are too many inconsistencies), but whose?or maybe its one we dont worship. and that just opens a whole nother can of worms. frankly, i think atheism is far simpler, and if we follow the logic many christians seem to use (simplest explanation is the best), then atheism is the best explanation.
In that case, how about the Norse gods? They always were my favorite, ahead of the Greek/Roman then the Egyptian gods. (any others, please bring to my attention)
yea. the cool thing with them was not only could they die, but they were doomed in the end, and they knew it. they kick the greek gods ass, though in a fight, theyd lose, since they can die.
yea. the cool thing with them was not only could they die, but they were doomed in the end, and they knew it. they kick the greek gods a**, though in a fight, theyd lose, since they can die.
I don’t think so, because their whole thing was that they were destined to die in Ragnarok, so unless the Greek gods were part of Ragnarok, I think the Norse gods would still win.
norse gods could be killed too though. one of the Valhalla gods (i dont remember which right now) was killed by the snow giants (ice giants?)
norse gods could be killed too though. one of the Valhalla gods (i dont remember which right now) was killed by the snow giants (ice giants?)
They were all “Valhalla” gods, that’s just the place where warriors went when they died. I don’t remember snow giants killing of any of them, except maybe at Ragnarok.
im almost positive one was killed, ill verify that though.
GI, the mistake was mine, again, my difficulty in transferring my thoughts to words. to sum up my feelings:
- there is no god
- religion is a terrible thing
- if you choose to believe in god, it is your own perrogative (sp?)
- your belief should not be exercised publicly
Yanny, while some of what you said is applicable, im not prepared to accept that argument from you, you are a layman (sp?). however, that is part of the christian argument in the book (“God?”), so i will comment on it when i finish
I really don’t give a damn about Christianity. You probably know much I hate the church. However, one does not need to believe in the fallacy of organized religion to believe in a higher power. Looking at the universe, I can’t concieve that, by luck, all the trillions of cosmic pieces came together to produce life. Its so mathmatically improbable, that the supernatural is simply the most reasonable explanation.
If people just accepted this and stopped trying to believe in a book written by a Roman emperor, the world would be a much better place.
ok, i’m confused . . .
the “fallacy of the church”? It appears that you are the one who does not know his history. I obviously do agree with the second part of this paragraph.
And which book was written by which Roman emperor??
@cystic:
ok, i’m confused . . .
the “fallacy of the church”? It appears that you are the one who does not know his history. I obviously do agree with the second part of this paragraph.
And which book was written by which Roman emperor??
He is referring to Constantine issuing the bible at the Nicean Council…
im almost positive one was killed, ill verify that though.
Yes, one was killed, but not by any frost giants. The story is a little long, though, so I’ll spare the details.
ok, my mistake, but one did die.
CC: you seem to think that what i had said was fact, it was an opinion of mine, which you and i both pointed out.
1)its not so much an abscence of god, as simply no-god. an abscense (sp) would imply that one does or did exist, but isnt present, or is missing or something, whereas i believe there is no god, there never was a god, there never will be a god.
2)people may disagree with what i have to say, but i will say it anyway, because i truly believe it. it is not an inherently bad thing itself, and it does cause alot of good. but in my opinion, it causes enough evil, and is so unnecessary, that it is not worth it to have it
4) well, ideally, i would not have to argue politics, because there would be none to argue. however, as long as i live in America, or any society where politics exists, i will discuss it. also, politics is different from religion. arguing and discussing politics is something that almost has to be done, by the very nature of it. religion however, no matter your stance on it, does not have to be publicly discussed, some people just choose to.
Which one died? And would you mind to cut the story short and post it?
@F_alk:
Which one died? And would you mind to cut the story short and post it?
Baldur-I believe his claim to fame was the most beautiful god.
Anyway, there was some prophecy that he would be killed, and so his mother went through the world getting everything to promise that it wouldn’t kill him. Loki (the trickster god) appeared to Baldur’s mother in a different form and asked her whether anything hadn’t promised to kill him, and she said that she never asked the mistletoe plant, as it was so small and harmless. Loki promptly went off and made a mistletoe dart. Meanwhile, all the gods were throwing various objects at Baldur and seeing him not get hurt by any of them. Loki went up to Baldur’s blind brother Hodur? and asked him why he wasn’t joining in. Hodur replied that he was blind, and Loki said that he had a dart that Hodur could use and he would guide his arm. Hodur threw the dart, and it killed Baldur.
That’s the story, as best as I can remember it.
Hmmm…
Baldur’s death is the start of Ragnarok, that’s why there was the effort of getting everythings promise not to hurt him.
So, it’s more the faith that is already known, but hasn’t happened yet … As if it had happened, then Thor would have been dead already as well…
Not sure if it was the start of Ragnarok, I think theres a second part to that story where they try to get everything to cry for him (Baldur) so Hel will release him. I think they find out about Loki too, and mess him up a bit.
