Gun Control

[Guest]

GG, many 6 yo were saved because the paramedics had a motorized vehicle.
And i bet: more lives have been saved this way than have been taken by cars. Can you say the same for guns, that is: more lives were saved by “scaring the murderer off” than lives were lost due to guns?

[Guerrilla Guy]

@Guerrilla:

FBI Statistics (FBI, “Crime in US” 1998) stated that 2/3 of all firearm deaths are criminals killing criminals! It is against the law to commit Murder! Guns are used 6,580(resistance to crime: the prevealance and nature of Self-Defense with a Gun #86 “the Journal of Criminal Law” Northwestern Univ. of Law) times a DAY to defend themselves (me brings up handy computer calculator…) if we times that be 300 (just for a conservative rate we get: 2,055,000 lives saved every year! remembr that this is a conservative rate… Thousands are not lost because of accidents but because of suicide! 2% of firearm deaths related to civilians shooting actually killed a innocent person… I feel bad that a 1 and 6 yo got shot by their brother just as anyone else would… Everyone doesn’t deserve to die an early death by any means… do not auto assume that we are non-caring Americans who just want a gun for bragging rights… we would own them for a reason… The parents were not there (why I don’t know) and the gun was not secure so something like that was bound to accure… Here is a question for you: why does the politician who is making a speech about how his new gun control law will save lives, why does he need 5 body guards?

GG

here was my post F_alk…

[Guest]

Thanks for reposting that … let me comment on that:

@Guerrilla:

Guns are used 6,580(resistance to crime: the prevealance and nature of Self-Defense with a Gun #86 “the Journal of Criminal Law” Northwestern Univ. of Law) times a DAY to defend themselves (me brings up handy computer calculator…) if we times that be 300 (just for a conservative rate we get: 2,055,000 lives saved every year!..)

ahem first, your math is wrong: you put in 6850 *300. Your given number of 6580 * 300 would be 1974000 crimes prevented.
The thing i critize about that: I ask for lives saved, you say crimes prevented. Noone is hurt if someone steals from you, noone dies if you get beaten up (lightly). Still, these are crimes which probably show up in the statistics.
Thus, i don’t agree at all that your estimate was conservative…. unless you meant it the political way ;)

Another point: if all these self-defense were against “attacks against your life”, and i just assume that the US society is otherwise a “usual” western society and that Germany is a “usual” western society… then we in Germany would have (82 million germans, compared to 278 million USies, assuming the ratio holds) an approximated 582,000 deaths that were not prevented by guns (as we don’t have guns). In 2000 we had about 735,000 people that died in Germany. So, that would mean that about 80% of all people in germany die due to violent crimes.
This is unbelievable.
Thus, one of the assumptions has to be wrong:
Either you are an extremely violent country and thus “unusal”,
or germany is an extremely peacful country and thus “unusual”,
or the crimes that were prevented would have been non-lethal to a huge degree.
I tend to the third reason

[Guest]

The NRA took the time to make a black list:

http://www.nraila.com/FactSheets.asp?FormMode=Detail&ID=15

[Guerrilla Guy]

alright average! 8) Crime is unpredictable… does that prove that gun control will solve the problem?..

[Guest]

No, but it weakens (if not dissolves) one “pro”-argument, and shows why the car-gun analogy is not valid.

[cystic crypt]

@Guerrilla:

I’m back…

CC wrote:
Also - note: it is not simply one 6-year old. it is thousands and thousands of people killed by units created not to help mankind, but to KILL PEOPLE!!

As I said, it has also saved over a million a year… you never hear those stories cause they promote gun use… are those people that were saved insignificant? maybe they are unintelligent zombies :wink: :lol: … many 6 yo were saved when her father pulled out a .22 or a .38 special and gave the burglar, murderer whatever a scare… why don’t you mention those saved…

GG

because:

1. we have no idea on which this stat is based on. Is this a million encounters a year in the streets where one person approaches another saying “i’m going to kill you now” and a gun saves the day? Is this because 2 gang-bangers pulled guns on each other and decided not to be killed by the other one? Did a wife pull a gun on her husband who was attacking her with another gun or a knife?
2. these people were “saved” from other people with guns!!! If guns were unavailable, then this million people would not have to go through this traumatic experience of “needing a gun to protect them”. I would suggest that if guns were banned then this group of people would not need this kind of protection. Really, this argument is such a joke, especially when looking at the whole picture. It makes the US look like South Africa.

[cystic crypt]

@F_alk:

The NRA took the time to make a black list:

http://www.nraila.com/FactSheets.asp?FormMode=Detail&ID=15

wow.
i am happy to see that i am in such excellent company.
Note the number of prominant health organizations, including the AMA. Why would these organizations throw their money (i.e. the dues paid to it by physicians) to the support of a cause that hurts children?

[Guerrilla Guy]

ahem CC, more people die each year from physician malpractice then firearms

[cystic crypt]

@Guerrilla:

ahem CC, more people die each year from physician malpractice then firearms

do you have a source for that? How is “physician malpractice” defined?
Also have you considered the number of patient visits that occur in a year? The number of hospital days spent by patients every year?
Also have you considered that physicians are typically in the market to preserve life, and provide comfort into death while firearms sole purpose is to end life, and provide misery for the families of those affected by them?