Are bombers broken? : Axis bombers lead to allied dismay.


  • @Uncrustable:

    Either I’ve been playing wrong, or you can only scramble up to 3 planes per airbase, even in defense of SBR. You guys are talking about scrambling up to 9 planes in some scenarios.
    Have I misread the rules ?

    You can only scramble 3 air units per airbase to defend a seazone- but unlimited planes to defend a strategic bombing run.


  • @BJCard:

    @Uncrustable:

    Either I’ve been playing wrong, or you can only scramble up to 3 planes per airbase, even in defense of SBR. You guys are talking about scrambling up to 9 planes in some scenarios.
    Have I misread the rules ?

    You can only scramble 3 air units per airbase to defend a seazone- but unlimited planes to defend a strategic bombing run.

    Specifically, only fighters can intercept in bombing runs, fighters and tacticals can both scramble for seazones.


  • It looks like going north and taking Belarus before Bryansk is more optimal than Western Ukraine for 1 reason:

    Once Italy has any force in Belarus, Russia needs to:

    a) block 2 territories so Italy can not take, leaving units to be strafed by German air units and fodder.
    b) retreat enough units in Moscow to guard production and capital
    c) divide there force amongst both regions.

    This means that Russia will likely be kept in Moscow longer than it wants to be, giving me the time I need.

    I look forward to a game with you Kruezfeld when you are available, I’d like to respond to your defense against this plan before I give up on it. Currently, I am pleased with my results from test games and now from a live game. When an allied player is first exposed to this, they have to be really sharp to not get burnt.


  • @Kreuzfeld:

    …I will of course have my Russian fighters in Moscow, and possibly build 1 more there if I can afford it. I will also add as many British fighters as needed to prevent you from bombing. If I have 6 fighters in Moscow, you are not bombing me without fighter cover.

    I’m ok sending 6 bombers vs fighters, we each hit once, then 1 bomber out of 5 is shot down, then 4*5=20 damage. I just traded 24 ipcs for 30.

    if you are bombing me for 20, I will of course wait until I have 50 IPC in my hand before I build, making sure I completely use my 10 spaces. which means you can only on average kill 10 IPC for bombing / turn.

    So you place 10 units every 3 turns…3.33 units a turn…vs…6 mech, 2-3 bombers a turn for Berlin

    ??? you playing with tech???

    no, bomber boost refers to rapid conquest of Russia as they flee the “Dark sky”

    assuming I don’t do this, your math for what you can have by the end of G3 is wrong, I said what I will get there after I evacuate novogorod, I should have 25 I, 10 Art, 2 mech, 2 tank, 2 ftr, 1 tac standing ready in bryansk, and by R3 I have 28 I, 17 A, 2 mech, 2 tank, 2 ftr, 1 tac +4 AA = 55 units, standing there. If you want to attack that with 53 units, then be my guest.

    That math was for the test game, not in general.

    If you are not able to threaten me away from bryansk, then russia will continue to produce good for a long time.

    What protects your newly placed units from an air only strike?

    Since you will If you cant go into bryansk then, I am reoccupying it, and have now started to invade with britain and usa, and probably have some british fighters on the way to moscow to defend against bombers. since none of your bombers can reach france, you should be in deep trouble there and can’t really afford to build that much more for my area.

    If a navy is in the Atlantic, then bombers not bombing deploy to S.Italy which reaches every front. To support my navy of cv,bb,ca,1-3 subs (starting pieces plus ac built turn 1.

    Now, I am a HUGE fan of building planes with germany, however it is not bombers I build, and I build 18 mechs in G2, and possibly 8 mechs in G1, this is because you will simply not have enough boots on the east front without these units.

    Also I prefer a more fighter heavy version of it, however bombers might be the way to go in some cases. My luftwaffe is usually counting 20 planes by turn 5.

    I build my mechs turn 5….in Russia…12 fighters cost same as 10 bombers…fighters=6 hits, bombers = 6.4 hits plus move 2 more spaces.


  • We just finished a game of 1942 2e and tried your bomber strategy. Germany, Japan and USA all tried heavy bomber purchases throughout the game. Granted, I imagine it works a little different in Global 1940, but there were interesting results from this game.
    USA used their bombers to good effect against Axis navies. They were especially troublesome for Japan who kept having to replace transports.
    Japan made some bomber purchases, more than usual, but didn’t really get into heavy bomber purchases because they kept having to buy transports. One particular note was their land unit purchases: almost entirely infantry.
    Germany really put the bomber strategy to good use. They also bought almost exclusively infantry for land buys. I think a couple of artillery were purchased, but no tanks at all. They just used what they started with. It really worked well with cheap infantry as the fodder supported by bombers for the real punch. By the end of the game – Round 8 when Germany captured Washington – Germany had a fleet of 20 bombers.
    The best way to do it, especially in the large battles, is to try and have as many infantry as the enemy you are attacking. Odds are, their infantry won’t get that many hits so they never get to your bombers. Meanwhile, your bomber stack tears them up.
    Looking forward to trying this out in our next G40 game.


  • Thanks for the feedback and open mindedness to try this, especially in 1942. You will be pleased with the axis results in 1940 global. I am not saying this is unbeatable, but it sure speeds up your early advances and I still struggle to find a counter.


  • @knp7765:

    …s for the real punch. By the end of the game – Round 8 when Germany captured Washington – Germany had a fleet of 20 bombers.
    The best way to do it, especially in the large battles, is to try and have as many infantry as the enemy you are attacking. Odds are, their infantry won’t get that many hits so they never get to your bombers. Meanwhile, your bomber stack tears them up.
    Looking forward to trying this out in our next G40 game.

    You let the cat out of the bag for me here…with my strategy Washington and Ontario are viable victory city targets if allies go all in on Moscow, London, and Egypt. There are two locations on the map, that when properly coordinated with each of the 3 axis players permits a rapid late game conquest of America. I am being cryptic because I wanted to use it against a forum player before releasing it to the public but now I feel rushed: Erie is the most underused territory for going after America.

    Lets just say in one round after Italy captures one of two key locations (Erie or Scottland), I can get my German bombers to a Japanese landing strip (Alaska) in North America by first moving to this location (Erie) that is out of range, but made to be in range with a follow up Italian air base (z119,z123,z122,z121,Alberta,British Columbia,Alaska). This means the USA has 1 turn warning, when the German bombers land (if they predict the airbase) and no warning since only Anzac and France go between Italy and Germany if they don’t catch the significance of these two sites. (Hint: The weaker of the two choices is Scotland but it has an airbase which could warn USA since they see Japans conquest).

    Note: Japan’s throw away transport is not threatening to USA if they take Alaska for instance and USA follows before Italy makes its move, so their build is locked in.

    Now from Alaska (Japan builds an air base after Germany lands) you can strafe all USA territories using surplus bombers to apply damage to each factory if Japan’s main force follows up with a larger landing in British Columbia (from z6-Japan) this is easy and it secures the landing of EUSA bombers.  Alternative, a second Italian transport takes West Indies, after Germany lands in Alaska to provide range for the EUSA bombing/strafing.

    If you wipe all USA units off of the Land in North America with German and Japanese bombers, the Japanese tank landed in Alaska moves to Alberta, you strafe the land again, and it blitzes Ontario( a victory city ) to Washington (another victory city and probably number 8 or 9 in axis hands)….Two turns after landing in Alaska with Germany, I have plundered Washington with one throw away Japanese transport, an infantry (which takes WUSA two turns later if walking, the next turn if the transport lives.), an armor, and 2 air bases.

    Imagine a bomber strategy, that requires 2 airbases, 1 transport, and 1 armor to plunder Washington in 2 turns, sacrificing German and Japanese air units (that land on top of the German bombers to defend them from USA strafes) to clear the 30 units USA could build in its 3 factories. Once Japan’s tank takes Alberta, you land your slow German and Japanese air units to protect it from a US carrier strafe.

    The only counter is for America to have a strafe of Alaska ready when Japan lands the tank. This sub-strategy can happen at any time during the game…good job bombers.

    Are there easier ways to get German bombers to USA, yes…Iceland, West India, you name it, but Erie is the most “eerie” because it might go completely unnoticed unless your opponent reads my posts. Unless forwarned or extremely paranoid I challenge any veteran that sees Germany landing its bombers in Erie as a threat to Washington the following turn. All they will have seen was the Japanese Alaska take…Italy goes after their turn. So when Germany lands USA now has one turn to fly its air back to USA and build all land units or they are doomed…if the axis draw the USA navy to Australia, or South Pacific, only thier previous naval build will be in range to try to help…A single Japanese transport kept/produced in z6 keeps this threat real at all times. An Italian transport kept at Gibraltar (East side) (or an Italian troop loaded onto a German z112/z113 transport) should now open everyone’s eyes. You have been warned.

    Don’t like beating around the bush, are the allies going Europe first…Ok Japan stage a large invasion of Alaska, I’ll sacrifice my German capital and send my bombers to Alaska, together we will use brute force to curb stomp Washington the turn after USA enters the Mediterranean. I don’t need Erie as West German bombers can land in Japanese occupied Alberta/Panama/ in a pinch. You see, Operation: Hollywood is not dead, just reborn in the sky…Operation: Dark Skies  :evil:


  • Just throwing an idea out, but what if the Allies are heavily bombing Germany and Italy?  Would it slow the production of German bombers down?  Haven’t really looked at this too closely, just wondering.


  • @bongaroo:

    Just throwing an idea out, but what if the Allies are heavily bombing Germany and Italy?  Would it slow the production of German bombers down?  Haven’t really looked at this too closely, just wondering.

    From London, you can reach France, W. Germany, and Normandy, South France, Northern Italy (if they land in Malta).
    From Malta or North Africa you can hit Southern Europe and land.

    You cannot reach Berlin, so a good German will produce out of there and Russia.

    In a pinch, it is cheaper to erect minor factories than it is to repair major.

    Basically, I don’t think it will work for bombing, but strafing land or landed units does create a few possibilities.


  • They can bomb the captured russian factories as well from moscow.


  • @bongaroo:

    They can bomb the captured russian factories as well from moscow.

    True, that means it will cost 6 extra IPCs to produce out of them. If you do not have enough units stacked on them, the produced units will get strafed as well.


  • @bongaroo:

    Just throwing an idea out, but what if the Allies are heavily bombing Germany and Italy?  Would it slow the production of German bombers down?  Haven’t really looked at this too closely, just wondering.

    I have been toying with it against JJ, and I can tell you that while the bombers are very effective…the allies still have to buy the starting pieces that make German bombers so nasty.  It takes time, but America can really put the hurt on.  Search for Alsch91’s game against Auswanderersland…I think we had 21 American bombers against a conventional game where he went Russia first.  It was close…as in, we weren’t sure we were going to win - I think he got bored when a lucky bomber AA roll sank his fleet, but it was dicey to the last.

    While this gives me hope for a proper bomber counter, it takes time and so, I believe that it will be a combination of conventional and bombers for the allies.  Regardless of the strat…ultimately, saving Russia should be the focus imo.  I greatly appreciate the feedback and thoughtful comments, I play JJ this Saturday.  Its on like Donkey Kong.


  • It appears that ghr2 is on the fritz, so I shall advertise for an opponent if any are available.


  • PBF game I mean.


  • @Auswanderersland:

    It appears that ghr2 is on the fritz, so I shall advertise for an opponent if any are available.

    Kruezfeild was being pretty vocal about how he would crush this crazy bomber thing

    Maybe he is all talk and no show  :-D

    On a side note, does an American bomber build work on spring42?
    I play on GTO whenever I have time and would love to try it


  • I already sent a request for a game with him.  But frankly, if anyone has read this thread this far and wants to play the Axis and use the bomber strat.  I am game to play the allies zero bid.  The reason for this is that “bidding” a fix does not make.  If the game is hosed, its hosed.  Playing the allies sucks if the Axis utilize this strat.  I don’t mind seeing if I can give Russia life till about turn 7…then I still die about turn 9 or worse I neglected other nations to the point they fall.  IDK, I hope its a combination of delaying/retreating with Russia…but every unit, not leaving anything if you don’t have to.  And lotsa planes.  /sigh, I just don’t know.


  • not sure about 1942, I don’t have that game.


  • @Auswanderersland:

    …I am game to play the allies zero bid.  The reason for this is that “bidding” a fix does not make.  If the game is hosed, its hosed…

    actually bidding is the fix to balancing this game. it also helps to determine which side you will play and adds a small amount of variety as different bids will allow for different openings and strategy.

    @Auswanderersland:

    Playing the allies sucks if the Axis utilize this strat…

    playing the allies sucks against any strategy if there is no bid.


  • hehe, i guess conventional, my experience has been a little better.  But I agree it is weighted slightly toward the axis.  Regardless, I am not sure that a bid is necessary to fix the game.  To make the game fun and with variety?  Sure, but that as an entirely different process.  I still feel that moving units on the board, turn order, AA back to normal, etc, etc…could provide a far closer solution towards “balance.”


  • or how about letting transport act as casualties?  that would definitely destroy the bomber strat…

4 / 9

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