A new USSR philosphy!

[Guest]

Do you know how ever russian strategy says to attack mancuria. I noticed if you don’t send fighters from your capital you don’t easily win! And if you send fighters from your capital, it slows you down with Germany. Wouldn’t it be smarter to move the infantry from evenki and just buils up defenses for them to attack… also if you do this eventually they are bound to lose if USA is helping! Tell me which is better attacking manchuria or defending?

[MistaBiggs]

Well … I would say defending – but, I play RR (Russia Restricted), so Russia can’t attack MAN anyways (on turn 1).

[laststrike]

What you are referring to is the “Russian Wall”. If you move all units from ENO and SFE into Yak, you can have 7 INF and 1 ARM defending. Unless Japan bid several units which can attack this, it can be a good move.

I have also seen some players build up Yak with fewer units and fly in the UK FTR from India on UK 1. The only problem with this is that the FTR is no longer available for an AES attack on UK1.

Attacking Manchuria all depends upon what you are going to do with the UK (i.e. attack Kwangtung or AES) and where the bid is placed.

[joshost]

i find attacking finland is a good strategy because than the USA can get some of there men over there.

without war history would be boring.
-joshost
a rich snob is someone who can listen to the william tell overture and not think of the lone ranger.
-unknown

[Grigoriy Ivanovitch]

I agree with MB, even without RR I tend to not attack Man.

a rich snob is someone who can listen to the william tell overture and not think of the lone ranger.
-unknown

Then I must be a rich snob, but then again, there’s a lot more to that piece than just that section.

[Eric]

Why would you attack Manchuria? Then Japan can annhilate your eastern front and waltz over to Moscow. OTOH, there are certain situations where I would do it. For example, one unlucky Japanese player left the sea of Japan open to an American attack. With the Japanese transports out of the way, Russia went marching down Manchuria, Kwantung, and Burma, plundering Japanese IPC all the way. So basically, only take it if Japan can’t counterattack.

[kyrial]

As Russia I try and do everything possible to make Japan pay for every territory. Remember the key with the allies is simply to have Russia last long enough for the USA/ UK to get their act together.

I wouldn’t attack Manchuria (usually as with others we play RR) but MIGHT consider it under the following circumstances: Germany has had some bad rolls and the Western Front is secure; the US has the shuck full speed and the Western Front is secure; Japan has two fighters on Manchuria and only two infantry. If the latter, I might take the tank and fighter and attack with a host of infantry because taking out 2 fighters is a serious blow to Japan early. It leaves them with the unenviable task of trying to seize territory with a very infantry laden army, since almost all early Japan attacks are supported by air until they can 1) get an IC on the mainland or 2) get enough transports to get at least 1-2 armour each turn plus 5-6 inf.

Mostly with Russia though your best bet is to play hard defense against Japan and make them pay for the advances, slowing them to the point where Germany is getting beat on and you can afford to start shifting troops to the East.

[Guerrilla Guy]

i would take the defensive and push one evenki troop to novorbisk to deployment in Ssainking… then put one russian troop to novorbisk to do the same, consildating the rest making 6 Infantry and a armor… turn 2 brings a fighter from keraila having been replaced by a british one… then do a wait for one more turn for an Infantry from moscow to arrive… then the japanese should have china and india and if the british flew their other fighter to Ssainking India (saying there is 4-5 Infantry and a fighter…) maybe persia but I doubt they have India but for 1 turn if the transportation from last turn looks bleak and tasty hit to make them blotched out… then the Japanese will have to back track but if 2 Infantry from moscow were sent to fortify yakut he will pay a price for it… the of course things could go wrong but I assume at this point it will destroy Japan’s push power for two turns and possibly it might have to reseize a IC if your lucky…

[Guerrilla Guy]

so as far as a philosophy (played up in a game in my head) I’ll have to agree with you it is the smartest move probably for Russia in regards to the east…

[laststrike]

@Eric:

Why would you attack Manchuria? Then Japan can annhilate your eastern front and waltz over to Moscow. OTOH, there are certain situations where I would do it. For example, one unlucky Japanese player left the sea of Japan open to an American attack. With the Japanese transports out of the way, Russia went marching down Manchuria, Kwantung, and Burma, plundering Japanese IPC all the way. So basically, only take it if Japan can’t counterattack.

Kwangtung Surprise!

First, you have to assume that the western front is going to be okay based on your combat / non-combat moves. Bid placement, if any, is also key. I have seen this run against a 1-2 INF bid in Manchuria, but any units bid into Kwangtung usually means this will not work. If you are okay, the Kwangtung Surprise can be a very effective way to do several things:

1. Kill one Japan FTR

2. Save 1, maybe 2 USA FTRs that would normally be destroyed before USA 1. Usually the China FTR is spared and since Japan is forced to go at Asia hard, Japan will many times not attack Pearl Harbor.

3. Significantly slow down the Japan advancement by 1-3 turns (sometimes even more).

On Russia one, attack Manchuria with 5 INF, 1 ARM, and 1 FTR. Land FTR in either Yak or China. You should take with 1-2 INF and 1 ARM.

On UK 1, attack Kwangtung with 2 INF, 1 FTR. Most times you will clear with at least FTR, maybe INF. Land FTR in China.

Now Japan only has 2 INF, 1 FTR on mainland. China is defended with 2 INF and 2-3 FTRs. Depending upon Russia’s non-combat moves and US’s moves, the following turns for Japan can be grueling.

You have to make sure you move your pieces correctly against Germany. It all depends upon if there is a bid and if so, where it is placed. Like anything with this game, nothing is for certain and dice can become a factor. But this move tends to be a major headache for Japan.

[kyrial]

Kwangtung Surprise!

It’s a thought, and certainly takes a different attitude than the traditional defensive vs. Japan. While I can see the merits, you have to remember the following… risk vs. reward. If Japan loses this, it’s a major pain in the rear. It pushes them back a turn but if they buy a few transports on J1 they can most likely take back at least Manchuria on J2 and then start pressing the attack from there. Plus India now becomes an easier target and you can bypass China altogether if they have too many fighters there.

If your rolls go bad, as laststrike did make a point, you’re pretty f***ed because they will be going full throttle on both Russia and the rest of the far east on J1/J2. And in taking back Manchuria Russia loses the armour.

[M-4_Sherman]

ok where do you get your brit INF from for the attack on kwangtung? then only place you could get them is india via trannie. that leaves india open for the walk-in. its a good idea, but you might want to wait until UK2 and bring up the INF from Australia first.

[laststrike]

@kyrial:

India now becomes an easier target and you can bypass China altogether if they have too many fighters there.

@M-4_Sherman:

ok where do you get your brit INF from for the attack on kwangtung? then only place you could get them is india via trannie. that leaves india open for the walk-in.

Yes, the UK uses the 2 INF from India via the TRN. Why is India so important? So Japan is able to walk in on J1. This is really no different had the UK vacated India to transport INF to Egypt. Chances are very good that Japan will only take India with 1 or 2 INF. The USA can easily clear this because they have the 2 INF in Sinkiang and have a surviving FTR in China. If Japan takes any move units into India (i.e. utilizes Philippine INF), these INF will not be attacking Manchuria or Kwangtung. Remember, Japan only starts off with 2 TRN.

You have to think big picture on this. If Japan is down a FTR and the USA is up 2 FTRs, this is a 36 IPC swing. Those two additional Allied FTRs also come in very handy later in the game for trading units with the Axis. Under AVERAGE dice, the Russians take Manchuria with 1-2 INF and ARM; the UK takes Kwangtung with 0-1 INF and FTR. Set the board up and take a look at Japan’s options. It doesn’t look good. This sets Japan back in regards to IPCs and attack options to get new IPC’s. Japan will spend J1 just trying to get back it’s initial territories and will cashing out at below 30 IPCs for J1 and maybe even J2 based on dice and what the Allies do. This sets Japan back 1-3 turns at least.

A kill Japan first strategy can be very effective.

[MistaBiggs]

Laststrike is right … however, this is only viable if NOT playing RR.

It definitely is beneficial to save both the Allied fighters, while destroying one on Japan’s.

Good strategy for non-RR games. This would allow the US to plop down an IC in SIN on US 1 too. (Which can be crucial when simultaneously setting Japan back a couple turns).

[MysticalRommel]

No you must destroy Germany First but that does not mean to ignore Japan Attack manchuria True they will take it back but if you move more troops into it you kan continue the war there some players in japan will give up the prolonged war.

[Grigoriy Ivanovitch]

@MysticalRommel:

No you must destroy Germany First but that does not mean to ignore Japan Attack manchuria True they will take it back but if you move more troops into it you kan continue the war there some players in japan will give up the prolonged war.

All right, I’m doing this w/out benefit of numbers, but I will make the assumption that Russia has but 1 or 2 troops remaining in Manchuria. Therefore, Japan will easily rout the remaining forces. Now, it will definitely take all your troops to take Manchuria, so how are you going to get any more troops there? The quickest way is armor, but even if you bought inf instead you would still be shortchanging the German front. I’ve tried attacking Man before, and it never worked. Don’t do it!

[MysticalRommel]

bravo it can work if you explore the possibilities. Cant is a nasty four letter word say you can and the possibilities are endless

[Grigoriy Ivanovitch]

@MysticalRommel:

bravo it can work if you explore the possibilities. Cant is a nasty four letter word say you can and the possibilities are endless

True, but they tend to degenerate into possibilities of losing.

[MysticalRommel]

no the possibilities of victory or at least slowing down the Japs buildups long enough for America to Begin its attacks

[Guest]

The US attacks Japan ???
No wonder why you advise “tanks and only tanks” for Germany.