Brainstorming for the Central Powers

[zanetheinsane]

@xxstefanx:

Still a slight disadvantage numerically BUT US cannot make itself felt on the battlefields for at least 6 rounds!

But when it does it bring everything all at once, so you have to count that the US will most likely build 6 transports for 36 IPCs so it will be be able to leverage all of its other available IPCs just like any other Allied country would. Even though the US isn’t at war, you should still count it’s IPC cost in the allied total.

In our game we calculate how many troops the US can theoretically under optimal circumstances (no CP warship interference and optimal transport load/buy) and on what turns they can land them reliably. Then we calculate the US’s “IPC per turn” contribution to the allied war effort.

When you look at it this way, with the normal movement ruleset the US’s actual contributions to the allied effort of very minimal.

[Bigtiti]

@xxstefanx:

Yes.
Destroying the 6 Romanian and 4 Serbian units right away is the best trade-off you can get R1 with AH.
Losses = 5.
You conquer both tts and get 5 IPCs which is almost 2 Inf.
So basically it is 10/3 which is  a big one you could not afford to miss out.
(AND: Russia cannot counter it.)

Economics change to:
CPs: 82 IPCs (84 if AH is lucky and takes Tuscany!)
Allies: 108 IPCs

With the maximum AH stack in Galicia Germany is prepared to make 11 additional IPCs R1:

• Poland 3
• Holland 2
• Belgium 2
• Africa: 4
  (SO that would already be 93/97!
  Still a slight disadvantage numerically BUT US cannot make itself felt on the battlefields for at least 6 rounds!

i wouldn’t study economics if I were you
no, just joking, but you did make some calculation errors:
the CP cannot hold africa, so 8 IPCS go, while the allies can take it, and extras (congo, mozambique, angola, ethiopia, spanish morocco)
also; the pro-allied neutrals are not included, like portugal, arabia, albania and such
the ottomans give ground against overwhelming british forces, but that’s later in the game so i understand your calculation.

but my plan was concerning the russians: not only giving them a hit on the stomach in A1 but a hit on the Ukrainehead in A2 and G2….

[KimRYoung]

With the 2-move variant catching on, it may be difficult to get a handle on OOB strategies. With the 2-move rule in place, the CPs have more options now and the Turks CAN get into Africa to make a difference.

Kim

[Flashman]

The 2 space move is getting out of hand if it can be used in Africa.

That wasn’t the idea…

[Chacmool]

I thought 2 space movement is only allowed in Europe and Turkey?

Doesn`t make sense in Africa…  :?

[Bigtiti]

cut the 2 move transport, this is discussion for axis plans (OOB)! I want ideas
the matter in fact, i just came up with one: using austrian forces through sebastopol to aid autobots…

[eudemonist]

Last game I played, I ended up sending Germans down to India after the fall of Russia.  Not my whole eastern force, but ten guys or so.  A-H didn’t really have anybody left on the eastern front, or some of them would have come, too.  The Ottomen definitely need the help against India, but even with the German additions, they weren’t able to take it.  They did keep India contested for about three rounds, though, which helped monetarily.  Just couldn’t keep it up.

[Bigtiti]

@eudemonist:

Last game I played, I ended up sending Germans down to India after the fall of Russia.  Not my whole eastern force, but ten guys or so.  A-H didn’t really have anybody left on the eastern front, or some of them would have come, too.  The Ottomen definitely need the help against India, but even with the German additions, they weren’t able to take it.  They did keep India contested for about three rounds, though, which helped monetarily.  Just couldn’t keep it up.

if in your games ottomans can contest india, then I would like to hear their magic plans…  i just can’t believe it how anybody can take india!

[Derek]

@Frontovik:

@eudemonist:

Last game I played, I ended up sending Germans down to India after the fall of Russia.�  Not my whole eastern force, but ten guys or so.�  A-H didn’t really have anybody left on the eastern front, or some of them would have come, too.�  The Ottomen definitely need the help against India, but even with the German additions, they weren’t able to take it.�  They did keep India contested for about three rounds, though, which helped monetarily.�  Just couldn’t keep it up.

if in your games ottomans can contest india, then I would like to hear their magic plans…  i just can’t believe it how anybody can take india!

well he never did take it from what i read lol

contested was the closest they ever got

[eudemonist]

You got it, Crusty.  Otters were able to get down there and contest it for a couple of rounds, but never take it.

The only reason they even got that far is because Britain didn’t really build there heavy the first few rounds;  the Germans were buying navy, and the Brits had to do the same to keep up.  Even with the assist of eight or ten Germans, though, it still didn’t actually fall.

[xxstefanx]

@Frontovik:

@xxstefanx:

Yes.
Destroying the 6 Romanian and 4 Serbian units right away is the best trade-off you can get R1 with AH.
Losses = 5.
You conquer both tts and get 5 IPCs which is almost 2 Inf.
So basically it is 10/3 which is � a big one you could not afford to miss out.
(AND: Russia cannot counter it.)

Economics change to:
CPs: 82 IPCs (84 if AH is lucky and takes Tuscany!)
Allies: 108 IPCs

With the maximum AH stack in Galicia Germany is prepared to make 11 additional IPCs R1:

• Poland 3
• Holland 2
• Belgium 2
• Africa: 4
  (SO that would already be 93/97!
  Still a slight disadvantage numerically BUT US cannot make itself felt on the battlefields for at least 6 rounds!

i wouldn’t study economics if I were you
no, just joking, but you did make some calculation errors:
the CP cannot hold africa, so 8 IPCS go, while the allies can take it, and extras (congo, mozambique, angola, ethiopia, spanish morocco)
also; the pro-allied neutrals are not included, like portugal, arabia, albania and such
the ottomans give ground against overwhelming british forces, but that’s later in the game so i understand your calculation.

but my plan was concerning the russians: not only giving them a hit on the stomach in A1 but a hit on the Ukrainehead in A2 and G2….

No need to.
I already have a diploma - and feel insulted!
I did not make any “calculation errors” as it is just a momentary picture for R1 and2 with the general flow of income.

CP have to develop along a certain income line to close the gap whether Russia or Italy is the main (first) target.

For instance Germany:
R1 46 IPC
R2 target 50 IPCs

• by getting more in Russia
• Make Lorraine or holding ground in the west
• hopefully minimal direct losses in Africa
  R3 (or R4) BIG BANG 55+ IPCs
• here is where the transport (or 2) come in taking Russian tts

Tempo is so important for the CPs in this game, maybe even more than in the other A&A games.
Africa serves just to cash in some additional income to fuel the European warfare IMMEDIATELY!

In the 2 games the CPs won so far Germany had reached 55 and 57 IPC by R3!
With that power he could start piling masses marching west.

If Russia is sacked by R4/R5 by RR the Austrians must be at the Gates of Italy before the Americans go elsewhere.
The CP initiative must always be utilized to significantly reduce Allied options:
No US reinforcements = Italy Fall!

[italiansarecoming]

Only the centrals  are gaining income it seems like.

What about Albania, Portugal, Rumania, and allies taking some African territories?

I want to know why the Allies in your R1 and R2 scenario are sitting idile while the Centrals are taking everything.

Does Russia in your games make a navy and Great Britian builds artillery on the Island first 3 turns?

[xxstefanx]

Short answer: They don’t!

But this does not take anything away from this opening!
(or do you have a better R1 AH opening for a Russian strategy?)

Longer Answer: Russian does not build a navy and UK not only arts R1-R3!  :wink:

Even longer answer: The Allies take what they can too. (and that softens the income closing).
                            The CPs still move that way…AND the game itself leans toward the Allies balancewise with an estimate of 60:40 but even 40 means a win chance as it is a dice rolling game with a great
                            portion of luck possibly deciding games or supporting certain outcomes!

[Derek]

In all my games the Allies gain almost as much income as the CP in the first couple rounds

If the Allies are sitting on there hands the first couple turns, then that would explain your 60/40

[Bigtiti]

@Uncrustable:

In all my games the Allies gain almost as much income as the CP in the first couple rounds

If the Allies are sitting on there hands the first couple turns, then that would explain your 60/40

agreed

[xxstefanx]

That is no new knowledge at all!

Do the maths:
With CP starting at 77 IPCS and Allies 113 IPCs the CPs never have a chance to eliminate the disadvantage economically without RUssia out of the picture!
How could they?
With Russia’s 25 IPCs out and the CPs having conquered some/many of their tts it’s (probably) the only effective way to have a chance - considering some “nice” dice rolling - at all!

So the ration might swing in best case slightly in favor of the CPs after R4/R5 OR NEVER!
Most likely very good Allied play and at least on par dice that won’T happen though!
The game is biased - even with perfect CP play - towards Allies victory!

Our estimate atm is at 60% Allies vs. 40% CPs.
(might even be 70% vs. 30% though)

BUT even 30% is a chance of winning for CP!

Question is: Is there a better way of purchasing/moving/strategy to get a better picture?
Knocking out Italy?
You tell me!

P.S: There might be another alternative by sustaining the disadvantage  for some time and  possibly getting the RR at VERY LOW COST (essential!) in later turns! I don’t think so, but MAYBE! If someone likes to explore that path and can come up with some decent statistical data (meaning gameoutcomes on average dice rolls on both sides!) this would be very much appreciated! OF course it is best to utilize “low luck” for proving or dismissing strategies!

[Derek]

XXS: you contradict yourself

You say the CPs don’t have a chance, and the game is biased towards the allies…
Then you turn around and say the game is 60/40 and the CPs do have a chance lol

60/40 is pretty close to a balanced game

But 60/40 is wildly inaccurate, much closer to 20/80, or CPs winning 1 in 5
But even that is being a little generous

[xxstefanx]

It helps if you read my post with the necessary attention!  :lol:

[Derek]

@xxstefanx:

It helps if you read my post with the necessary attention!  :lol:

It helps if your not a sap :(

[xxstefanx]

No offence… I am on your side:
CPs have a hard time!
There is no need for arguing about the exact percentages!
In our group it is 40%/60% atm.
Maybe here it is worse because players do not use my strategy?  :-D
(JOKE!)

The thread is titled “Brainstorming” so why don’t we flesh out some strategies (in detail) along the following line:
1. Russia blow
2. Italy blow
3. Tank March (east)
4. ?