Ok, so if I corrected all the mistakes I made in my first PBF game with you, we should see the second game created HERE!
GL&HF
:)
Best Allied Strategy…
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I tend to agree with you on the fact that GER is the immediate threat; however, JAP is the real threat in my opinion. It’s hard to get at JAP, and if left to roam … watch out – the sun will rise! It’s hard for GER to build a navy and still apply pressure on RUS. So, UK usually doesn’t have anything to worry about – just RUS. Keep RUS in the game that is the sole (main) key to an Allied victory.
But all in all … it doesn’t matter who you concentrate on first – BOTH must have some pressure applied to it … or the Axis will prevail.
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I think the main key to an allied victory is the development of UK/US aid to Russia so that Germany can never get a real offensive going against her thus giving Russia the ability to transfer troops to the east and stem the Japanese tide.
Germany usually gets Africa first and so weakens UK terribly for maybe 2 rounds (and if J gets India it’s even worse) but usually Germany doesn’t have the ability to reinforce Africa (if they do it’s tougher for Ally, or if Japan gets to Africa watch out) so a few US troops can get it back for UK. Basically the UK has to get back on its feet so it can help pump troops into Russia and also keep Germany honest on the western front. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen a German player think “I can hold WEu with x many troops” only to not see a transport here or there, or just plain underestimate what the Allies are willing to throw at him.
Again, key to me is getting UK/US troops into Russia so Russia can send all troops East to face Japan. Send in a couple of UK/US fighters as well for defense and after a while Japan cannot advance anymore. Once Japan’s advance is contained, the US can start building a Pacific fleet and transports and start Island hopping because usually Japan takes all her island troops to the mainland. Eventually $ of Allies > Axis, as can be expected.
But if you can’t get UK back up from the 18 IPC a turn she usually falls to within 2 turns so she can start a healthy troop pump to Russia, Germany will just overwhelm and then it’s mucho problemos.
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I can agree with everything in your post, Kyrial, except that the US and UK forces in Russia should be tranfered to the Far East Front. The reason for this is because, with Russia, you never want to split forces, this makes you weaker on the offensive. A single Russian army is more powerful than a combined one made up of UK, US, and Russian troops. The main offensive threat Uk and US should signal to Germany is of Western Europe, forcing the German to split resources between the two fronts.
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Point taken TG Moses on the not wanting to split up the Russian army. Admittedly it is better served being one and able to punch into German territory at will.
The reason I split things is because I view the game in terms of pure economics… IF you can simply keep Axis on the defensive, eventually you win out as Allies. So for my play as Ally it’s not as important to mount an offensive as Russia against Germany but simply to get enough troops surrounding Germany so that she can no longer expand. Basically it gets to the point where all she controls is Germany, WEu, SEu and Eeu and maybe Ukr (if trading off as a dead zone).
Controlling Germany is easier than Japan because you have more forces and more local ability to get defensive positions (via UK troops to Karelia and US troops as well) and to threan WEu if the Germans aren’t honest there. But with Japan, US forces are far, far away and likely you have no navy (everything to Europe), plus even if you did there’s nothing in the pacific that will really put a dent in the Japanese economy except maybe Phillipines. And UK unless you have IC on India in T1 you don’t have local forces and anyways you should concentrate most of you efforts against Germany (tho that part is up to personal discretion and gamestyle).
Which leaves Russia as the only force who can get large swaths of infantry to confront the Japanese within a few turns and can keep pumping out 8-9 INF a turn against the Japanese (getting a tank every now and then to launch the limited offensive).
Once Axis can no longer expand, barring some really fluke die rolls, it’s a matter of time before Allies win. So that’s why I try and have the bulk of the Russian army on the East against Japan after the first few turns.
It’s my style of play but I can certainly see where you have a point about the Russian army being as one and fighting Germany.
I have a question: how do you confront the Japanese if you do that?
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I agree with kyrial on this one … at least early in the game.
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I think near the beginning America must purely focus on Japan, build trns, subs, bbs, acs, the lot. eventually going arounds island hopping.
Britain should bomb Germany, fight in Africa, and maybe fight in India.
Russia should send fighters to india to defend it, try to keep the caucauses, and try to stop Japan from advancing too far into Russia.
Once America has crippled Japans economy, they should start bombing Japan and Germany. Once this is done go ahead with Operation Overlord, and takedown Germany. -
In my limited experience, there’s no way the U.S. can effectively fight Japan in a naval battle-generally their original navy gets taken out, and it just takes too long to build a new one. IMO, if you want to fight Japan at all, build factories in India/Sinkiang and fight from there, otherwise, Japan can take Russia before your navy is ready for battle.
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GI is right, the only way I would opt for US to go after Japan is if it is a collective decision with UK (ie, providing me with full support from India.
However even with this happening, you still have to worry about Germany in Africa… -
Drumstix, my only question is how you intend to take out the Japanese economy by attacking in the Pacific? Looking at it from an IPC perspective, Japan (proper) + Manchuria + Kwantung + Indochina = 17 IPC out of the 25 Japan starts with. The only major pacific objective for a US player as far as IPC goes is the Phillipines with 3. Most islands are worth 1 or none.
Given that a good Japan player is going to expand into Asia starting with J1 it means that the overwhelming majority of Japanese economic production is going to lie in the mainland. Looking at it this way if one is able to remove Japan entirely from the mainland you have taken away about 36% of their economy. Taking away every island possible will reduce them only 32% and it takes a LOT to take every island as far as you have to build a large fleet to protect the transports.
My take as the German player is as follows: even with the UK going all out to help Russia (once their economic base is cut in 1/3 from losing Africa), if the US doesn’t send troops over to Europe I will overwhelm Russia eventually. Plus usually the US is the one to re-take Africa and #1 keep the German IPC base from hitting 40 :D and #2 restore the UK so they can produce more than 5 INF a turn :)
When I first started playing I too used to go after Japan with a US fleet (it’s a very American thing to do… too many John Wayne movies) but you had also better build that fleet in the East USA because if you build it in the West on J2 Japan will come in with the Pearl Harbour fleet (if they went that route) and smash the new fleet. And if the USA didn’t send over the fighters to the UKSZ, that makes the Luftwaffe planes very happy for G2 :D
I usually also have a difficult time finding enough Russian INF to send to the east to counter Japan, I don’t know where I would find the xtra to send to India… maybe a plane to discourage Japan on J1 from going for India but in games I play if I play as Russia I expect all to understand that I’ll be selfish for the most part (my troops are for Russian defense only; I’ll launch a spoiler attack if really need be) and if Russia is my ally I don’t expect any help from them except not to lose their territory.
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“IF all battles and wars are won before they are ever fought” This is
certainly obvious with AXIS and ALLIES. The allies have an awesome
advantage in this game and if you can apply their resources right you can
grind it out of the axis powers. Having said that I like to do just that with
the allies I do not put all of my eggs in one basket and that is what
happens if you choose to go after the Japs or Germans.
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Kyrial, you probably have more experince than me at this game but i find this strategy works.
What I do is send the 2 British fighters to Western Canada. Then as America build an Ac plus subs. On the British turn land the fighters on the Ac.
Supposing its 1 hit bbs, then the japs should have 2 bbs, an Ac, and 1, maybe 2 fighters. So that fleet versus the Anglo-American forces of 1 bb, 1 Ac, 2 subs, 2 fighters, and a transport. If Japan was lucky they might be able to beat that fleet!
Next turn Britain flies Fighters to East Canada and America lands more fighters on Ac and builds what it sees necassary.
By crippling Japans economy i didn’t exactly mean that only, hopefully if the Brits play well they might have some of Eastern China.
Even if Germany does slaughter the allies in Africa theyre doomed once Japan has fallen.
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MB, I am a little late to this discussion, but…
It sounds like you spent a # of turns building the US fleet and waiting to go against Japan. This is a waste in my opinion(what else would I post?)
MacArthur had a famous line he used in the Philippines. It was built around the phrase"…too late…".
I prefer the 1-2-3 v Germany. All the Allies are closer and can mass on Germany in better combinations. The problem you had with your game was that there was only one main press on Germany for most of the game(from R w/love.)
If you try to press on G & J at the same time you get little result.
If you focus on Japan there is more minor fine tuning that may be forgotten. If one attack fails or one ally forgets to reinforce another(R shipping 1 inf east each turn, an IC in US Sin, an IC in UK Ind or AES.)
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I personally dont like going all out on the Germans. I think Japan gets way too strong, way too fast. In my games as the allies I ALWAYS atleast threaten Japan as UK and/or USA.
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I personally dont like going all out on the Germans. I think Japan gets way too strong, way too fast. In my games as the allies I ALWAYS atleast threaten Japan as UK and/or USA.
have you ever raid the jap shipping with subs?
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Yes making the Japanese build naval units to protect their transports is a good idea. It lets India get a break for a turn or two.
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Ok, Drumstix I see your point on wanting to get at Japan because you’re right if Japan loses out Germany is in tough straits…
As Japan I wouldn’t contest your American fleet until you were basically right on top of the home Islands or something I consider very strategic in the Pacific like the Phillipines (worth 3).
Heh, there are so many ways to play this game… I find that when I am America it works better if I help get Germany out of Africa and restore the UK IPC base so they can take up a great deal of the slack against Germany, thus releasing me to go against Japan. Plus, as I said in my other post (somewhere…) once UK and USA are sending a good amount of troops to fight Germany it lets Russia shore up the defense against Japan. Japan has to keep expanding to win, they need the IPC base desperately. So the sooner you can contest their expansion the better for the allies. At least that’s how I play it but I do see how you could make a legitimate stab at Japan with an American fleet and the UK fighters.
Mind you, if I am Germany and I see not only the UK fighters going WEST instead of EAST (to defend Russia) and I also see a US fleet in the WEST I will start filling to Panzers with diesel and Russia had better pray that they get some really nice rolls by G3 or else I’ll be storming into Moscow before Japan has really been threatened. :evil:
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Well as Britain I bomb Germany constantly to lower their IPCs.
But I see what you mean, whichever game I play like this Germany gets really strong, but once Japan falls, America and Britain have it in the bag.
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