Axis and Allies 1914 FAQ/Question and Answer Thread

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

Another Russian revolution question.

Turn 6: Germany takes control of Russia. Britain moves in and contests Russia. Ottomans control Belarus, Tatarstan, Ukraine, and Sevestapol, having just taken Tatarstan.

Turn 7: Russia’s turn comes around. Bel, Tatar, Ukr, Sev all remain under CP control. UK and Gerry remain contesting Moscow. Russia does not change any of this on their turn.

Revolution occurs, correct?

[Flashman]

Looks like it. There’s really nothing Russia can do to prevent it at this stage. Unless they have a huge army in Karelia…

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

This then makes an interesting scenario, since unless Russia got units into Moscow, Germany would control it exclusively if they did not get wiped out by the brits in the one turn after the Revolution.

So UK’s turn, they disappear. Germany controls Moscow.

US turn, US has a bunch of units in Russia somewhere and then attacks a CP-held territory in Russia. That territory would go to the Amis if they win.

[Flashman]

The revolution cannot occur if Germany controls Moscow. If the Brits all leave, I assume that the Germans can remain “by courtesy”, but they would not regain control since the terms of the treaty are now in force.

[Flashman]

I think it would be considered liberated and return to Russian control.

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

US turn, US has a bunch of units in Russia somewhere and then attacks a CP-held territory in Russia. That territory would go to the Amis if they win.

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

@Flashman:

The revolution cannot occur if Germany controls Moscow. If the Brits all leave, I assume that the Germans can remain “by courtesy”, but they would not regain control since the terms of the treaty are now in force.

Read carefully what I wrote. Germany and Britain are contesting Moscow when the revolution happened. On Britain’s next  turn, their units are GONE at the end. Assuming they did not wipe out Germany’s forces in Moscow, Germany takes control of Moscow.

[Flashman]

Yes, physically Germany is the only power with units in Moscow, but it is subject to the treaty terms. But reading them again, well yes, Germany would indeed control Moscow.

But other than a big 6 IPCs, I don’t think it’d be any different from Germany controlling any other Russian tt; its not like they can build units there.

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

@Flashman:

Yes, physically Germany is the only power with units in Moscow, but it is subject to the treaty terms. But reading them again, well yes, Germany would indeed control Moscow.

But other than a big 6 IPCs, I don’t think it’d be any different from Germany controlling any other Russian tt; its not like they can build units there.

Except that in that 1 turn where Allied units have to move out or die, another Allied power could take control of Russian TT’s

[Flashman]

You mean liberate them. They go back to Russian control.

Read Krieghund’s post above. Carefully.

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

Read the Rules (box on page 20). Territories cannot be liberated by an ally’s attack when the Capital of the country for which it would be liberated is under enemy control. It’s a safe bet that Krieg’s answer was not with a CP-held Moscow in mind.

[Flashman]

KH answered this here:

@Krieghund:

@WILD:

Are the other allies and the CP allowed to fight each other in original Russian territories if they are both in it contesting it at the time of the revolution? Knowing that if the other allies made such an attack they would be removed after the battle not being able to leave Russian soil in time (that turn).

Yes.

@WILD:

Further more can the other allies and the CP attack each other in adjacent original Russian territories. Maybe the UK would rather kill some CP units instead of trying to get out in time (or can’t get out in time). It says that other allied powers can no longer enter orig Russian territories, but does that also mean they can’t choose to make an attack into another orig Russian territory if they are already in an orig Russian territory when the Revolution happens.

The prohibition on entering original Russian territories applies to Allied units outside of Russia.  I’ll amend the original post.

@Hitlers:

Can the Allies still attack Original Russian territory if it is held by the Central Powers

Only those Allied units in original Russian territories at the time of the Revolution may do so, as further units may not enter those territories.  Of course, units that spend their one turn of remaining life attacking will not get out.

@Hitlers:

and if so does the territory go back to Russia or the Allied Power that captures said territory?

It is liberated to Russia.

@Flashman:

Was it always intended that the Americans cannot load up and sail transports before declaring war, or is a new ruling?

I can’t comment on that.

@Flashman:

If a player buys units and then loses his capital (on his own turn), does he get a refund on ordered land units as per naval units?

Sorry.  I meant to add that to the list.  I’ll amend the original post.

@Flashman:

(Incidentally, I don’t think you should be allowed to buy ships for a naval base controlled by the enemy, even if you recapture it on your turn - ships took a long time to build!)

You can’t really.  You can’t mobilize ships from a naval base you haven’t controlled for your entire turn, and ships you can’t mobilize are returned to your storage box and you get a refund for them.  If all of your naval bases are enemy-controlled at the beginning of your turn, you’ll just get a refund for any ships that you purchase.

@Flashman:

If British units in Russia attack and eliminate all CP units contesting a tt with Russia before the mandatory British disappearance, does the tt revert to Russian control and become off limits to the CPs?

Yes.

@Flashman:

Where are the 39 steps?

:-D

@Flashman:

Not quite sure how Russian and Central Powers can still contest a tt if they are no longer enemies.

They can’t really - they just share it, and neither party gets control or income.

@Flashman:

As per my question above, can I assume that you cannot voluntarily demote a unit to infantry before movement in order to move into multiple tts ?

Nope, so plan accordingly.

[Flashman]

If there is a revolution, Russia no longer has a capital.

Moreover, since the Allied units concerned have to leave Russia they cannot stay to take control of the tt, ergo if the CPs are eliminated the mt tt defaults to Russia.

I suppose its about timing; if you take control of a tt at the end of combat, then there is a problem since the Allied units leave at the end of their respective turn (i.e. after combat).

So if the last Brits in Russia attack and eliminate the Germans in Livonia, do they get to place a UK control marker there?

The rule should say that all Allied units and control markers are removed, though perhaps the UK could still collect the 2 IPCs…

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

Once again, it’s a safe bet a CP-held moscow was not considered in the answer.

A territory cannot be liberated if the capital of the liberatee is under the control of the enemy. So, when the revolution has happened, Germany controls Moscow, and on the very next USA turn, when  they eliminate all CP forces in a CP held, Russian territory, the territory becomes controlled by the US according to the rules. It would take an exception made by krieghund specifically considering the CP control of Moscow to change that.

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

@Flashman:

If there is a revolution, Russia no longer has a capital.

Moreover, since the Allied units concerned have to leave Russia they cannot stay to take control of the tt, ergo if the CPs are eliminated the mt tt defaults to Russia.

Not sure where you are getting any of this. Nowhere do I see anything saying that Russia no longer has a capital.

@Krieghund:

After the Russian Revolution, Russia has no friends or enemies.  All Russian units outside of original Russian territories are immediately removed from the board.  Russia will immediately relinquish control of any non-original territories it may hold, including aligned minor neutrals.  If units belonging to other Allied powers are in these territories, control will be established based on the rules for moving all units out of a contested territory on page on page 15 of the Rulebook; otherwise these territories will remain uncontrolled until another power moves into them and will not mobilize units when entered.  Serbia and Romania will be treated as minor neutral powers for the remainder of the game.  Units belonging to other Allied powers that are outside of original Russian territories may no longer move into them, and any such units remaining in those territories at the end of their next respective turn will be removed from the board at that time.

Clearly, taking control of the territory happens BEFORE the end of the turn.

[Flashman]

Technically, you are correct.

But I’m pretty sure KH will rule that no Allied power can control tt in post revolutionary Russia, just as Russia may control no tt outside its own original tts.

This small political window overrides other rules until it resolves itself.

[Flashman]

Of course what this really needs is a Russian Civil War to sort everything out.

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

@Flashman:

Technically, you are correct.

But I’m pretty sure KH will rule that no Allied power can control tt in post revolutionary Russia, just as Russia may control no tt outside its own original tts.

This small political window overrides other rules until it resolves itself.

I hope that’s the case, that it’s changed. My point here is that as it stands this is what the rules seem to be saying, and thus an actual change is necessary if USA is not to get the TT in that case.

Here’s the write-up, since I already did it, with a new question that might become mostly moot.

G6: Germany takes control of Russia, wiping the last Russian land unit off the map as well.
UK6: UK moves into Moscow from Karelia, contesting it.
O6: Ottoman Empire establishes CP control over Belarus, Sevestapol Ukraine, Livonia and Tatarstan.

R7: At the end of Russia’s turn, (they had no units to do anything, for the sake of simplicity), Moscow is contested, CP controls at least 3 adjacent to Moscow, plus they control at least one more Russian territory. Thus, the Revolution occurs.
UK7: UK forces contesting Moscow fail eliminate all Germans. UK forces are removed at the end of that turn. With no Allied units in Moscow, it becomes German.
US7: USA Attacks CP-controlled Livonia and destroys all CP units. Moscow is under German control. USA takes control of livonia, and then at the end of its turn, removes its units there.

One thing I can’t keep straight from game to game is when control is achieved. Let’s say in the same scenario above in addition of the contesting units attacking in Moscow, UK forces in Karelia attacked Livonia. When exactly does control of a territory change? After each combat? At the end of the phase?

If the UK units in Moscow are wiped out, then Moscow becomes German.
If the CP units in Livonia are wiped out, then Livonia becomes Allied.

But, depending on which on comes first, it seems that Livonia would be either British or Russian.

(EDIT: I guess this might apply to some situations outside of the Revolution)

[Flashman]

The most important issue with your scenario, and why we do need a definitive answer, is that it gives the Germans the double benefit of capturing Moscow (which we must assume still counts as a victory objective) and knocking Russia out of the game permanently.

I had not considered that this was a possibility. If it is, then the Central Powers really do need to consider smashing their way into Moscow by a direct route rather than surrounding it, then somehow manipulating a revolution. But, precisely because of this possibility, the UK would not be stupid enough to contest Moscow from this position and hand Germany the added benefit of revolution.

And on that bombshell, I wish you good night and sweet dreams.

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

That becomes quite the issue, if it will always or almost always be too risky to try to liberate Russia.

[Flashman]

Couple more things:

KH has already said that if you purchase units, then lose your capital, the enemy who gets control in effect cashes in those units.

So if this happens to the UK, can it still place those units in India, with the enemy holding London getting nothing?

Can the UK mobilize units in India if it is enemy controlled? (well the rules don’t say otherwise).

Ref page 22/23: can ALL battleships (including those of Allies) bombard?