XDAP-5 AllWeNeedIsHank vs Cannibalized by Fluff

[DeadTom]

Glad you asked, but the answer is no. In Berlin, AA first then Italians.

Gutsy move. Let’s see how it plays out.

[DeadTom]

I changed my mind. Scramble. There was something I noticed that I didn’t see before.

[DeadTom]

Never mind, don’t scramble. This is final.

[allweneedislove]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round :12

Purchase Units - Americans
            Americans buy 2 artilleries, 5 bombers, 1 carrier and 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Americans
            1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 19 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 23 Sea Zone
            1 mech_infantry moved from Belarus to Bryansk
                  Americans take Bryansk from Germans
            1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Archangel to Smolensk
                  Americans take Smolensk from Germans
            1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Smolensk to Belarus
            3 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 112 Sea Zone to Germany
            2 bombers and 2 fighters moved from Norway to Germany
            1 fighter moved from Norway to Germany
            2 fighters moved from Finland to Germany
            4 artilleries and 9 infantry moved from Norway to 112 Sea Zone
            5 artilleries and 12 infantry moved from 112 Sea Zone to Denmark
            1 fighter moved from Finland to 112 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Eastern United States to 112 Sea Zone

Combat - Americans
            Battle in Denmark
                Americans attack with 5 artilleries and 12 infantry
                Germans defend with 2 infantry
                    Americans roll dice for 5 artilleries and 12 infantry in Denmark, round 1 :  7/17 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 infantry in Denmark, round 1 :  2/2 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Germans and 2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Denmark
                Americans win, taking Denmark from Germans with 5 artilleries and 10 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
            Battle in Germany
                Americans attack with 2 bombers, 8 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 1 aaGun, 1 factory_major, 2 infantry and 10 mech_infantrys; Italians defend with 6 infantry
                    AA guns fire in Germany :  1/3 hits
                    1 fighter owned by the Americans lost in Germany
                    Americans roll dice for 2 bombers, 7 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber in Germany, round 1 :  6/10 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 aaGun, 8 infantry and 10 mech_infantrys in Germany, round 1 :  8/18 hits
                    7 fighters owned by the Americans , 1 aaGun owned by the Germans , 1 tactical_bomber owned by the Americans and 5 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Germany
                    Americans roll dice for 2 bombers in Germany, round 2 :  1/2 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 3 infantry and 10 mech_infantrys in Germany, round 2 :  5/13 hits
                    2 bombers owned by the Americans and 1 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Germany
                Germans win with 2 infantry and 10 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is -92
                Casualties for Germans: 1 aaGun
                Casualties for Italians: 6 infantry
                Casualties for Americans: 2 bombers, 8 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber

Non Combat Move - Americans
            1 bomber moved from 112 Sea Zone to Norway
            2 fighters moved from Eastern United States to Iceland
            1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Soviet Far East to Sakha
            1 transport moved from 4 Sea Zone to 1 Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from 4 Sea Zone to 9 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 38 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 112 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone

Place Units - Americans
            1 carrier placed in 113 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry placed in Norway
            1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Finland
            5 bombers placed in Eastern United States

Turn Complete - Americans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 1
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 6 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,5
            Americans collect 70 PUs (1 lost to blockades); end with 71 PUs total
            Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 76 PUs
            Objective Americans 4 Philippines: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 81 PUs
            Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 86 PUs
            Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 96 PUs

Territory Summary for Americans :

Caroline Islands : 1 flag, 1 airfield and 1 harbour
    Formosa : 1 flag
    Korea : 1 flag
    Okinawa : 1 flag
    Burma : 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
    Philippines : 1 airfield and 1 harbour
    Guam : 1 airfield
    Wake Island : 1 airfield
    Western United States : 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 factory_major and 1 harbour
    Hawaiian Islands : 1 airfield and 1 harbour
    Midway : 1 airfield
    Sakha : 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
    Celebes : 1 flag
    41 Sea Zone : 1 destroyer
    44 Sea Zone : 1 flag
    37 Sea Zone : 1 flag
    38 Sea Zone : 1 battleship, 2 carriers, 1 cruiser, 6 destroyers and 1 transport
    23 Sea Zone : 1 submarine
    20 Sea Zone : 1 submarine
    21 Sea Zone : 1 submarine
    1 Sea Zone : 1 transport
    9 Sea Zone : 1 transport
    6 Sea Zone : 1 flag
    Central United States : 1 factory_major
    Eastern United States : 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 5 bombers, 1 factory_major and 1 harbour
    Iceland : 2 fighters
    Norway : 1 flag, 1 airfield, 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
    Denmark : 1 flag, 5 artilleries and 10 infantry
    Belarus : 1 armour and 1 mech_infantry
    Bryansk : 1 flag, 1 mech_infantry
    Smolensk : 1 flag
    112 Sea Zone : 2 carriers, 1 destroyer and 9 transports
    113 Sea Zone : 1 carrier and 1 fighter
    Brazil : 1 flag
    Finland : 1 flag, 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor and 2 infantry

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 49 / 77
    Russians : 9 / 0
    Japanese : 17 / 12
    Americans : 71 / 96
    Chinese : 23 / 23
    British : 29 / 29
    UK_Pacific : 17 / 0
    Italians : 26 / 37
    ANZAC : 16 / 26
    French : 8 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

[allweneedislove]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round :12

Purchase Units - Chinese
            Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
            Chinese buy 7 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;

Combat Move - Chinese

Non Combat Move - Chinese
            2 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Kansu

Place Units - Chinese
            7 infantry placed in Manchuria

Turn Complete - Chinese
            Chinese collect 23 PUs; end with 25 PUs total

Territory Summary for Chinese :

Shantung : 1 flag
    Kwangsi : 1 flag, 1 airfield
    Kiangsu : 1 flag
    Kiangsi : 1 flag
    Jehol : 1 flag
    Manchuria : 1 flag, 8 infantry
    Kansu : 2 artilleries and 8 infantry
    Tsinghai : 18 infantry
    Burma : 19 infantry

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 49 / 77
    Russians : 9 / 0
    Japanese : 17 / 12
    Americans : 71 / 96
    Chinese : 23 / 25
    British : 29 / 29
    UK_Pacific : 17 / 0
    Italians : 26 / 37
    ANZAC : 16 / 26
    French : 8 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

[allweneedislove]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round :12

Purchase Units - British
            British buy 1 fighter, 3 mech_infantrys and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - British
            1 bomber moved from Egypt to Tambov
            1 fighter moved from United Kingdom to Germany
            3 fighters moved from Norway to Germany
            2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Norway to 112 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries, 6 infantry and 4 transports moved from 112 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from 114 Sea Zone to Germany

Combat - British
            Battle in Tambov
                British attack with 1 bomber
                Germans defend with 4 bombers
                    British roll dice for 1 bomber in Tambov, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 4 bombers in Tambov, round 1 :  3/4 hits
                    1 bomber owned by the British and 1 bomber owned by the Germans lost in Tambov
                Germans win with 3 bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 1 bomber
                Casualties for British: 1 bomber
            Battle in Germany
                British attack with 2 artilleries, 4 fighters and 6 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 factory_major, 2 infantry and 10 mech_infantrys
                    British roll dice for 2 artilleries, 4 fighters and 6 infantry in Germany, round 1 :  5/12 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 infantry and 10 mech_infantrys in Germany, round 1 :  4/12 hits
                    4 infantry owned by the British , 2 infantry owned by the Germans and 3 mech_infantrys owned by the Germans lost in Germany
                    British roll dice for 2 artilleries, 4 fighters and 2 infantry in Germany, round 2 :  5/8 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 7 mech_infantrys in Germany, round 2 :  2/7 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the British and 5 mech_infantrys owned by the Germans lost in Germany
                    British roll dice for 2 artilleries and 4 fighters in Germany, round 3 :  4/6 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 mech_infantrys in Germany, round 3 :  2/2 hits
                    1 artillery owned by the British , 1 fighter owned by the British and 2 mech_infantrys owned by the Germans lost in Germany
                British captures 77PUs while taking Germans capital
                British converts factory_major into different units
                British win, taking Germany from Germans with 1 artillery and 3 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14
                Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry and 10 mech_infantrys
                Casualties for British: 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 6 infantry

Non Combat Move - British
            1 destroyer moved from 112 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun and 3 infantry moved from Karelia to Novgorod
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Union of South Africa to Belgian Congo
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Belgian Congo to Egypt
            1 fighter moved from Germany to Norway
            2 fighters moved from Germany to Denmark
            2 aaGuns and 3 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus

Place Units - British
            1 fighter placed in United Kingdom
            1 transport placed in 109 Sea Zone
            3 mech_infantrys placed in Union of South Africa

Turn Complete - British
            British collect 34 PUs; end with 111 PUs total

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific

Territory Summary for British, UK_Pacific :

Siam : 1 flag
    Burma : 2 aaGuns, 2 artilleries and 1 infantry
    Malaya : 1 factory_minor and 1 harbour
    Kwangtung : 1 harbour
    Sumatra : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    42 Sea Zone : 1 flag
    38 Sea Zone : 1 battleship and 1 carrier
    Belgian Congo : 6 mech_infantrys
    Iceland : 1 airfield
    Quebec : 1 factory_minor
    Gibraltar : 1 harbour
    New Brunswick Nova Scotia : 1 harbour
    Egypt : 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 harbour and 16 mech_infantrys
    Union of South Africa : 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 3 mech_infantrys
    Scotland : 1 airfield
    Malta : 1 aaGun and 1 infantry
    United Kingdom : 1 airfield, 1 artillery, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
    Germany : 1 flag, 1 artillery and 1 factory_minor
    Norway : 1 aaGun and 1 fighter
    Denmark : 2 fighters
    Italian Somaliland : 1 flag
    Ethiopia : 1 flag
    Belarus : 2 aaGuns and 3 infantry
    Novgorod : 1 aaGun and 3 infantry
    125 Sea Zone : 1 flag
    113 Sea Zone : 1 destroyer
    106 Sea Zone : 1 flag
    109 Sea Zone : 1 transport
    114 Sea Zone : 4 transports

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 44 / 0
    Russians : 9 / 0
    Japanese : 17 / 12
    Americans : 71 / 96
    Chinese : 23 / 25
    British : 34 / 111
    UK_Pacific : 17 / 0
    Italians : 26 / 37
    ANZAC : 16 / 26
    French : 8 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

[boldfresh]

Guess thats game  :|

[DeadTom]

I intended to leave Berlin vulnerable since I didn’t think you would attack it, because you seemed so confident that you would win, but I didn’t intend to leave it that vulnerable. I didn’t notice that you could land troops from 114. I thought that you would have needed to use your fighters to protect the transports from scrambling. When you asked my to scramble, I realized my mistake and thought about scrambling to increase my odds of holding Berlin, but decided that the odds of you getting diced were still fairly high, so I didn’t want to throw away the planes.

[DeadTom]

I think it might still be possible to win, but I don’t want to beat a dead horse. I said that if Berlin fell we would concede. Berlin fell, and if my teammate is in agreement, the Axis surrender unconditionally to the Allied powers.

@Boldfresh:

Guess thats game  :|

You seem disappointed. It was still an amazing game, even if the amazing comeback we had going didn’t pan out. Good game AllweneedisHank, and good luck in the rest of the tournament.

[DeadTom]

Although, if you want to play it out a bit more, I’d really like to see if I can reestablish a defense. The Allies lost a lot in taking Berlin. They lost the entire US air force and 4 British transports. Since your next round game hasn’t started yet, is it alright if we continue? It’s your call.

[allweneedislove]

@DeadTom:

I intended to leave Berlin vulnerable since I didn’t think you would attack it, because you seemed so confident that you would win, but I didn’t intend to leave it that vulnerable…

we were and still are confident that we would win. we talked about not attacking berlin as it would have been a better long term strategy, but we thought it would be a quicker and more obvious time for you to resign.

@DeadTom:

…
@Boldfresh:

Guess thats game  :|

You seem disappointed. It was still an amazing game, even if the amazing comeback we had going didn’t pan out. Good game AllweneedisHank, and good luck in the rest of the tournament.

i also enjoyed the game and had lots of fun. although we had a very different outlook on the game. thanks for the well wishes.

@DeadTom:

The Allies lost a lot in taking Berlin. They lost the entire US air force and 4 British transports.

we payed a huge price to take berlin. but it will only take usa two turns to build its airforce back to the pre berlin attack strength. and the uk will have it’s transports and more back in one turn.

we lost a much more brutal battle in moscow. the moscow outcome was probably in the top 1% of positive outcomes for the axis. both the japanese and italians softening blows were higher than average, allowing the german assault to have an 18% chance at winning with at least 1 unit remaining. and you won with many units left over. the allies lost most of their airforce including the awesome usa fleet of bombers. even after that worst case scenario the allies have a huge lead in total unit value, total units, production, and cash on hand.

@DeadTom:

Although, if you want to play it out a bit more, I’d really like to see if I can reestablish a defense…

i am sure axis could establish a defense to hold on for many more rounds(possibly another 10-20 rounds) due to the victory conditions for the allies.

@DeadTom:

…Since your next round game hasn’t started yet, is it alright if we continue? It’s your call.

i am happy to keep playing if you want to see what could happen. if hank is happy to keep playing we would obviously give up our spot in the tournament if you win(again this is very unlikely as axis would need great dice in multiple major battles or many major blunders by the allies to win) even if hank and/or decay do not want to continue we can play 1vs1 or 1vs2.

[Hank13]

I’m a bit confused. Have we won this game or are we still playing?

If Fluff isn’t conceding then of course I will still play. If you have conceded and you just want to continue for fun, then love can continue playing if he wants. I have a few other games I am trying to finish up and seeing that my players have been eliminated from this game, I am not really interested in continuing.

[DeadTom]

What I am saying is that we will concede right now if you want us to, but I really want to see how this plays out. I have no intention of playing defensive and forcing the Allies to achieve their victory conditions to win. If we continue, I will play all out for victory. The Allies cannot take Berlin a second time, so at worst losing Berlin will only set back my plans for Germany 2 rounds. As you said, it will take the US 2 rounds to rebuild their air force, so we will be in the same situation as before except with a stronger Britain.

I have lost Berlin before and recovered to win under similar circumstances. Losing capitals is only decisive if you can hold them or do a follow up attack. If Hank wants to move on, how about we continue 2v1? The only question I would have is whether you would still hold to your promise that if we end up winning we could go on to the next round of the tournament if Hank chooses not to continue.

To give you an idea of why I think that I can still win, here is what my impression of the game is. None of this has been by accident. This has been my strategy from the very beginning to play a positional game rather than a VC rush or economic game like most people say are the only two choices. My strategy was to encircle Russia and strangle them by attrition. The Italians would set up a strong position in the Middle-East giving them easy access to Egypt, the Japanese would take India securing Italy’s rear, and the Germans would eventually take Moscow then use their superior position to secure the remaining VC’s. I was relying on long supply lines to mitigate the economic advantage that the Allies had.

The first thing that went wrong was that Japan failed to take India and then collapsed very quickly. This was not so much the fault of my teammate as it was great play by the Allies in the Pacific. Then I had to get opportunistic and managed to secure India with Italy. Moscow got VERY dicey, but I still achieved that objective, and the entire time I thought that it would come down to control of Novgorod for the win. Novgorod has been and still is the key to victory, and this would seem impossible given the Allies incredible economic advantage for most of the game…

Except for one thing. There is a serious flaw in the Allied strategy. You can probably guess it. I’ll give you a clue: It rhymes with bamming spombers. Don’t get me wrong, it is a good strategy. It puts a lot of pressure on Germany, but it lacks stopping power. It’s effectiveness is limited once you are forced to engage the enemy. This is the reason that I still think I can win.

[DeadTom]

@allweneedislove:

we lost a much more brutal battle in moscow. the moscow outcome was probably in the top 1% of positive outcomes for the axis.

I disagree on this. Factoring in the odds of getting good outcomes on the suicide attacks, I would say we had about a 10% chance of taking Moscow. Give me some credit, it wasn’t all the dice.

[DeadTom]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round :12

Purchase Units - Italians
            Italians buy 3 artilleries, 4 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Italians
            5 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from Iraq to Trans-Jordan
                  Italians take Trans-Jordan from British
            2 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from Western Germany to Germany

Combat - Italians
            Battle in Germany
                Italians attack with 2 artilleries and 3 infantry
                British defend with 1 artillery and 1 factory_minor
                Italians win, taking Germany from British with 2 artilleries and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -2
                Casualties for British: 1 artillery
                Casualties for Italians: 2 infantry

Non Combat Move - Italians
            1 aaGun moved from Iraq to Trans-Jordan
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Persia to Trans-Jordan
            1 infantry moved from Persia to Iraq
            2 fighters moved from Iraq to Ukraine
            3 transports moved from 39 Sea Zone to 79 Sea Zone
            3 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from India to West India
            1 battleship and 1 cruiser moved from 39 Sea Zone to 79 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Western Germany
            8 infantry moved from Western Germany to Germany

Place Units - Italians
            2 artilleries and 1 infantry placed in Iraq
            3 infantry placed in Persia
            3 mech_infantrys placed in India
            1 artillery placed in Northern Italy

Turn Complete - Italians
            Italians collect 27 PUs; end with 28 PUs total
            Objective Italians 4 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Italians met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 34 PUs
            Objective Italians 1 Control The Mediterranean: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 39 PUs

[allweneedislove]

@DeadTom:

@allweneedislove:

we lost a much more brutal battle in moscow. the moscow outcome was probably in the top 1% of positive outcomes for the axis.

I disagree on this. Factoring in the odds of getting good outcomes on the suicide attacks, I would say we had about a 10% chance of taking Moscow. Give me some credit, it wasn’t all the dice.

i want to apologize. after reading your response and my post again i can see how it was rude of me and dismissive of your play. you did play well and i was not trying to marginalize your play. you made the right call on making the triple attack on moscow as it was low odds/high rewards.

i also made a mistake in the math. your results were about top 8% not top 1% like i originally stated. when calculating it i assumed that the above average results from the two suicide attacks on moscow would result in not taking moscow. but you could have had the same moscow result without 7 suicide hits, which i discounted those results. it was the discounting of those results that gave the incorrect upper 1% statement.

[allweneedislove]

@DeadTom:

… If Hank wants to move on, how about we continue 2v1? The only question I would have is whether you would still hold to your promise that if we end up winning we could go on to the next round of the tournament if Hank chooses not to continue…

that would be unfair to hank. i can’t play and lose a game without him and then tell him, by the way i lost a game so you lose your spot in the tournament.

i am happy to keep playing. but i think hank was just wanting to move on as he has many games going on right now. we can wait to see what he says.

if he wants to continue we would need to try to play realtime for an hour or 2 in an evening as we can not bog down the tournament as it is unfair to dairyqryn, boldutch, wewin, and atlanta axis.

if hank does not have time, i am happy to continue playing at a normal/slow pace.

i enjoyed this game and would be happy to start another if either or both of you want to start another game

[DeadTom]

How about we pick a time for just the two of us to finish the game on the TripleA lobby just for fun. The result would have no affect on the tournament. I could meet you there Saturday morning if that is alright.

[DeadTom]

I would say that my chances of getting those results were even higher than 8% actually. The suicide attacks by their high risk nature force the odds of any attack closer to 50%. I think it would have been reasonable to assume above average rolls for the suicide attacks in calculating the odds of taking Moscow since the odds were so low. The average would have been about 5 hits compared to the 7 that I actually got, which is not abnormally high especially with the number of @1’s I rolled which increase the variance. Also, If you take the average remaining units by the attacker according to the battle calculator and divide it by the odds of winning (to get rid of the 0 values in the results) you find that the average number of units that I would have left over in a win would be about 14. I think it is safe to assume that the odds of getting these results or better would be as much as 15% which is well within the realm of reasonable possibilities.

[allweneedislove]

@DeadTom:

How about we pick a time for just the two of us to finish the game on the TripleA lobby just for fun. The result would have no affect on the tournament. I could meet you there Saturday morning if that is alright.

pm sent