13L G40 Boldfresh vs. Jeff28 (Allies +11)

[Jeff28]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round :14

Combat Move - French

Non Combat Move - French

Turn Complete - French

Territory Summary for French :

United Kingdom : 2 infantry

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 50 / 81
    Russians : 27 / 29
    Japanese : 23 / 35
    Americans : 66 / 112
    Chinese : 23 / 86
    British : 36 / 36
    UK_Pacific : 2 / 0
    Italians : 21 / 27
    ANZAC : 33 / 43
    French : 2 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 0 / 0

[Jeff28]

I’d like to re-do USA, I miscounted from S. africa to 91. Thought my air could get there and it’s screwed up my whole strategy.

I’ll put the trannes off C. Mexico and the ACs back in the Eastern USA.

–Jeff

[boldfresh]

Uh, what are you saying you want to do?

[boldfresh]

just so you know, my entire strategy was based on what you were doing.  I will try to listen to reason, but i think this ship has sailed…?

[boldfresh]

@Boldfresh:

just so you know, my entire strategy was based on what you were doing.  I will try to listen to reason, but i think this ship has sailed…?

what you were doing was the reason i had this one in the win column already.  i find it hard to believe i could possibly lose this game from where the board currently sits.

however, before i proceed, i am certainly willing to listen to anything you may wish to say.

cheers

[Jeff28]

I couldn’t lose the game from you earlier either but allowed you an edit.

I made a mistake on my USA move thinking the air in S. Africa could reach. I need to re-do my fleet move.

–Jeff

[Jeff28]

You can then re-do Italy. I’ll keep the combat the same.

–Jeff

[boldfresh]

hold on now Jeff.  this is a very different situation.  VERY different.  me losing the italian air is not ever remotely comparable to this.  it was an illegal move that neither one of us knew about and i think you were very reasonable and we handled it immediately.  either way, it would not have resulted in me losing the game.

this on the other hand, is a crippling move (which i would need to have to stay in this game).  in addition, you would have realized that your air could not get to z91 ON YOUR USA MOVE so you should have made the adjustment then.

now, i submit to you that you did not realized i could make the move i am about to make, and thus it would not be fair to ask to redo the american move at this point.

please tell me if i am missing something?

[Jeff28]

Yes, you are missing that I am asking to re-do one american turn just like I gave you the chance to re-do your Italian turn earlier.

I didn’t probably adjust to my miscounting.

[boldfresh]

I still don’t even know for sure how you would want to change the board, but i highly doubt it is going to be possible at this point.  not only did you realize your air could not reach on the USA move, but Italy made a move which exposed what the Axis plans are.  In addition, i made a post which caused you to look closely at the board, and most likely you have realized what my long term plans have been leading up to.

i am almost certain that due to these factors i am probably going to have to say no to a USA move re-do.  there was nothing illegal about your move, and the most important factor is that you realized the air could not reach the carriers on your turn already.

however, as i said, i am always willing to listen and will wait to move until we have a firm resolution.  i would certainly be open to an independent third party review on these events.  but the facts above will almost certainly result in most if not all players on this forum saying a USA re-do is not a request that should be honored.

[Jeff28]

I should never have allowed your edit now knowing how you are.

[Jeff28]

I want the game reset at the earlier edit, I recind it completely and want the game played as the move laid earlier.

[boldfresh]

@Jeff28:

Yes, you are missing that I am asking to re-do one american turn just like I gave you the chance to re-do your Italian turn earlier.

I didn’t probably adjust to my miscounting.

jeff, we came to a redo of the italian move earlier for this reason:  the move was illegal and thus tainted.  could you have insisted that the move stand?  probably, but i think you decided that i would not have made the attack with only a 25% chance.  we came to a mutual agreement that i would not use the air elsewhere on that turn and i appreciate your willingness to be reasonable and fair and that we resolved it promptly.

this situation, please understand, is the result of long term careful planning and is the entire culmination of what i have been working for in a game in which i have had at least 10 aircraft downed by ridiculous odds in just the last 2 turns.  the reason most of those aircraft were downed, was to set up this very situation.

now, had there been something illegal about your move, we would have a whole different situation, but as it is jeff, i don’t think it would be fair and equitable for you to ask for a redo in this spot as though it would be an even trade for the italian redo.

cheers

[boldfresh]

post the map you say you are wanting.

[boldfresh]

as it would stand prior to the italy move.  i will have a look.

[boldfresh]

i am not trying to be at all unfair jeff.  this is a game of stategy, and this is a strategy that i have been developing for at least the last 5-6 moves in this hotly contested game.  and again, i am certainly willing to accept a third party opinion.  something that would be much more equitable would be a request like “hey since i let you keep your two italian bombers that turn, how about you have to take them off the board” or “how about you give me a couple of bombers to compensate for the two bombers i gave you back on that turn”.  but what you are asking is for much much more than that.

[boldfresh]

@Jeff28:

I want the game reset at the earlier edit, I recind it completely and want the game played as the move laid earlier.

what do you mean by “the earlier edit”.  the only edit i see on your american turn was involving some venezuelan infantry.

[Jeff28]

Your Italian re-do.

[boldfresh]

also Jeff, I came to you asking you to consider fairly the situation, not demanding anything as far as i remember.  i will look back at it, but again, the situations could hardly seem more different to me as far as i currently understand.

[miamiumike]

Hey guys - feel free to tell me to butt out and I will…I was following your game (any game lasting 26 pages must be interesting…) and I see the current situation.

IMHO, it probably is not good form for the US to change their turn at this point - there was time between the submission of US / China / UK and when Italy did their move - where if the US had said something, I think it would have been OK - assuming the rest of the game had similar edits done (which it appears it does).

However, you guys bring up one of the major ‘issues’ with players - myself included - allowing edits, changes and re-dos in a game. I am not saying that should NOT be done - I am saying it can cause this type of problem. Where is the line drawn between an edit / change that is OK to do and one that isn’t. There isn’t a correct answer - it is completely subjective.

Typically, to me, once dice have been tossed, it is much more difficult to go back and change something. And that happened here - with Italy taking their turn, attacking and placing units. The exception would be if there was something done that was illegal or against the rules.

Anyways - I have no stake in this game - other than watching it play out - but - it seems to me that the US made an error and the Axis caught them. Being 2-5, I can safely say I have made many, many errors. Again - if the US said something before Italy makes their turn - I think that given other edits, it would be fair for the US to reposition.

Just my $0.02 - again - tell me to buzz off if I offend…

MM