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Legitimate Military Target?
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you see, i wondered about that whole “electricity” thing.
I thought the thing about the “shabbot” was that instead of working, this was to be a day of worship. Electricity and cars would, in theory, reduce the work of a God-honoring Jew and free up time to worship and rest, no?or am i missing the point here?
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Today has been a horrible day for Israelis. A hotel owned by Jews in Kenya was attacked and 3 Israelis died. An El-Al, that’s Israeli airlines, plane was shot at with missiles while flying from Kenya to Israel and Palestinian gunmen killed at least 6 Israelis who went to elect in the primaries for the head of the Likud Party.
Sadly, 8 Kenyans also died. Today’s attacks are evidence there are well organized terrorist groups behind attacks. And it seems they are based outside Israel.
To address F_alk’s ocmment about the world not wanting to kill Jews anymore, forgive me for not beliving this, but I simply can’t, especially now. There were many timesi n Jewish History when anti-semitism appeared dead but re-arose from itself, and post-September 11th has been one of them. I’ll post for you some interesting quotes and articles so you can see my point.
The Israelis could be Christian or Muslim for all I care. Their Religion is not what is fueling this conflict. This conflict is being fueled by hate and death, not piety.
Yanny - you seem either not to be reading what I post, or you are simply ignoring it and going back to the same point. When Yasser Arafat had less officers and officials than he did now but decided to truly crack down on terrorism, he did so successfully and it took Hamas and Islamic Jihad a year to recover.
Right now, Yassar Arafat has no infrastructure to do much. His communication assets are basically limited to a cell phone. His command and control assets are probably limited to a laptop and his cell phone. He cannot leave the West Bank, and every few months he gets a close look at an Israeli tank.
Your comment about Hamas gaining something more powerful than a bomb strapped to a chest is unrealistic. It’s the same reason Al-Qaeda would never drop a nuclear bomb on the US.
I have no doubt that if Al-Quaeda had the means, they wouldn’t hesitate to nuke NYC or DC. And thats a problem we have to face. I wouldn’t suspect a full blown nuke hitting Israel, but a dirty bomb could easily happen.
If they were to kill say 200,000 in a nuclear attack, imagine America’s retaliation. There would not be an Arab country around anymore.
No, we wouldn’t go around and destroy every Arab country. But if the same people were behind it as were behind 9/11, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran would all be flattened. But the other nations would probably strengthen their relationships with us. Now Israelis, you’d just nuke a Palestinian city in return. America, we aren’t as ready to use our Nuclear supply as Israelis (Cia said Israel is by far most likely to be the first nation to use Nuclear Weapons).
They would most likely expel quite a few of the Palestinians from Israel and destroy their homes. Such an attack would hurt them more than it would hurt Israel.
Exactly why Israel is such a problem. They are doing the same thing on a small scale after each and every terrorist attack. Terrorists kill 10 Israelis, Israel flattens a police station, or bulldozes a block of homes. And in doing so, Israel her grave ever deeper.
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Today has been a horrible day for Israelis. A hotel owned by Jews in Kenya was attacked and 3 Israelis died. An El-Al, that’s Israeli airlines, plane was shot at with missiles while flying from Kenya to Israel and Palestinian gunmen killed at least 6 Israelis who went to elect in the primaries for the head of the Likud Party.
Sadly, 8 Kenyans also died. Today’s attacks are evidence there are well organized terrorist groups behind attacks. And it seems they are based outside Israel.
that’s like saying that “it looks like the 9/11 attacks are based outside Afghanistan”. The order and the training could come from anywhere in the world - Alabama, Quebec, Chechnya, Israel. The fact that it happened in Kenya has little to do with where it is based.
To address F_alk’s ocmment about the world not wanting to kill Jews anymore, forgive me for not beliving this, but I simply can’t, especially now. There were many timesi n Jewish History when anti-semitism appeared dead but re-arose from itself, and post-September 11th has been one of them. I’ll post for you some interesting quotes and articles so you can see my point.
The Israelis could be Christian or Muslim for all I care. Their Religion is not what is fueling this conflict. This conflict is being fueled by hate and death, not piety.
I don’t think that’s EG’s implication. The Israelites are as much an ethno-cultural group as they are a race, as they are a religious group. Regardless, too many people have a hard-on for annhilating them. It would scare me too.
They would most likely expel quite a few of the Palestinians from Israel and destroy their homes. Such an attack would hurt them more than it would hurt Israel.
Exactly why Israel is such a problem. They are doing the same thing on a small scale after each and every terrorist attack. Terrorists kill 10 Israelis, Israel flattens a police station, or bulldozes a block of homes. And in doing so, Israel her grave ever deeper.
you know, i don’t see what you’re saying Yanny. In my mind by Israel not taking lives in exchange for lives lost, but by dropping a few buildings instead it seems that Israel is acting more humanely. I have friends who think that Israel execute a member of a suicide-bomber in exchange for everyone that bomber kills. Although i’m against murder, i can see the appeal - logical, and bound to work, no?
but not a Christian solution . . . not that they are looking for Christian solutions. . . . -
you know, i don’t see what you’re saying Yanny. In my mind by Israel not taking lives in exchange for lives lost, but by dropping a few buildings instead it seems that Israel is acting more humanely.
I agree but Israeli are killing more Palestinian than the opposite, AND are destroying infrastructure…
Also, even if it’s not a reason for palestinian to annihilate the jews, the jews have not legitimacy there, Zionists just chose to go to palestine, claiming it was “a land without people for a people without land”. Just like we had no legitimacy on Africa and America.
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Leave to Quebec to harbour terrorists. :lol:
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Now, F_alk, of course they are used to adapt to modern times. The reaso nthe students wanted to know if electricity is like fire is because one of the things that one is not allowed to do is to create fire on Shabbat, so the rabbinical authority had to analyze exactly what electricity is, go through the Talmud and her discussions to see if it falls under the category of something that is allowed or not. In the end, electricty was not allowed to be used on shabbat, along with other things such as driving a car.
But why is it that they didn’t want to understand it? By the logic these students used you have to die each shabbat. None of your nerves is allowed to work on Shabbat, as it is “creating fire”.
I guess that would better fit into a new thread.
For the other topic we taked about: The world did not allow a genocide in the Kosove, why should it allow one in Israel/Palestine? -
@F_alk:
Now, F_alk, of course they are used to adapt to modern times. The reaso nthe students wanted to know if electricity is like fire is because one of the things that one is not allowed to do is to create fire on Shabbat, so the rabbinical authority had to analyze exactly what electricity is, go through the Talmud and her discussions to see if it falls under the category of something that is allowed or not. In the end, electricty was not allowed to be used on shabbat, along with other things such as driving a car.
But why is it that they didn’t want to understand it? By the logic these students used you have to die each shabbat. None of your nerves is allowed to work on Shabbat, as it is “creating fire”.
I guess that would better fit into a new thread.
For the other topic we taked about: The world did not allow a genocide in the Kosove, why should it allow one in Israel/Palestine?There is no genocide occurring in Israel. I don’t call announcing the checks in the morning for the afternoon and then coming in and killing those who are trying to kill you genocide. Genocide would be coming in and purposelyu tragetting the civilians and killing as many as possible. If Israel wanted to do this, she wouldn’t send in her infantry. She’d use her IAF to wipe out the cities with no casualties.
About your comment F_alk, fristly you are jumping in and attacking what you dont understand. If you read the Shabbat tractate, which is quite big and would take quite a while, you’d see the analysis for all the 39 major categories of things that cannot be done on shabbat and how they’re categories have sub-categories. Your nerves don’t make fire. If they did, I doubt you’d be feeling too good thorugh the incomplete combustion and increase in Carbon, coot and Carbon Monoxide in your system. If it was complete compustion, then the burning oxygen would have to be very very hot, which wouldnt feel too good either. Fire also refers to the creation of a new fire. So for example, if you light a candle on the eve of Shabbat, you cannot touch it on Shabbat and it stays lit. A car uses sparks to create fire to move, which is most likely why it cannot be used on shabbat.
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You still did’nt anwser my question about the legitimacy of the jew in palestine, i am very curious (sorry).
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You still did’nt anwser my question about the legitimacy of the jew in palestine, i am very curious (sorry).
Which question would that be? If you post it here again, I’ll be glad to answer it.
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what is the legitimacy of the jews in palestine ?
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2,000 Palestinian innocents dead, 800 Israeli innocents dead. Who kills more?
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2,000 Palestinian innocents dead, 800 Israeli innocents dead. Who kills more?
250,000 Americans and 350,000 British died in World War 2 while 5.2 million Nazis died in World War 2. Does that make the Nazis right for what they did because they had a high head count?
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2,000 Palestinian innocents dead, 800 Israeli innocents dead. Who kills more?
no context, no reference, no meaning.
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Emu u are forgetting about the 20 Million SubHumans, oops i meant Russians who were killed ;)
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again with the sub-humans… :-?
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eh well i was trying to put some sick and disturibing humor into the comment like i always try to do ;)
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…
There is no genocide occurring in Israel.
…I was talking of the future genocide you are afraid of, once Israel “accepts” Palestines as citizens with equal rights etc.
About your comment F_alk, fristly you are jumping in and attacking what you dont understand.
Well, maybe… but you do the same… :)
…Your nerves don’t make fire. If they did, I doubt you’d be feeling too good thorugh the incomplete combustion and increase in Carbon, coot and Carbon Monoxide in your system. If it was complete compustion, then the burning oxygen would have to be very very hot, which wouldnt feel too good either. Fire also refers to the creation of a new fire. So for example, if you light a candle on the eve of Shabbat, you cannot touch it on Shabbat and it stays lit. A car uses sparks to create fire to move, which is most likely why it cannot be used on shabbat.
THe sparks in cars are not fire at all:
And do not try to distract by showing you have not read about the Feynman story:) ….
He was being asked by these students wether electricity is fire…
he thought some time, explaining that fire is a sign of an electro-magnetic interaction, with a change of electrons, a transfer of chareges, which you therefore could call being electric. That was all they needed, they didn’t allow him to explain further.
I will do that :):
Now you nerves work by transfering charges, electro-magnetic interaction… which therefore is electricity which is fire.
Sitting on a chair: You do not fall through it because of electro-magnetic interaction between your outer electrons and the chairs… If i was orthodox, i would call it fire.
Anytthing that has to do with chemistry, that includes all bio-chemistry, that includes everything that happens inside oyur body: includes transfer of charges, electro-magnetic interaction… therefore is fire…This stance is among the most non-understandable for me in all religions:
Ultra-orthodox judaism… trying to adapt modern day things to old records by not understanding the modern things on purpose. -
Yanny wrote:
2,000 Palestinian innocents dead, 800 Israeli innocents dead. Who kills more?no context, no reference, no meaning.
But you yourself said:
The fighting has put off any prospect of Palestinian independence in the near future, has left the economy in shambles and led to the reoccupation of most West Bank towns by Israeli troops, in retaliation for Palestinian attacks. Almost 2,000 Palestinians and more than 650 Israelis have been killed.
The numbers I got (I forget from where, some News channel) reflect your numbers.
Yanny wrote:
2,000 Palestinian innocents dead, 800 Israeli innocents dead. Who kills more?250,000 Americans and 350,000 British died in World War 2 while 5.2 million Nazis died in World War 2. Does that make the Nazis right for what they did because they had a high head count?
No, but this isn’t a war. This is the back and forth killing of innocents. And the simple truth is that more Palestinian innocents are dieing. And, at the same time, Israelis are destroying Palestinian homes, keeping them on 24/7 quarantine, withholding their taxdollars, and destroying their infrastructure. Sadly, with American weapons.
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@F_alk:
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There is no genocide occurring in Israel.
…I was talking of the future genocide you are afraid of, once Israel “accepts” Palestines as citizens with equal rights etc.
About your comment F_alk, fristly you are jumping in and attacking what you dont understand.
Well, maybe… but you do the same… :)
…Your nerves don’t make fire. If they did, I doubt you’d be feeling too good thorugh the incomplete combustion and increase in Carbon, coot and Carbon Monoxide in your system. If it was complete compustion, then the burning oxygen would have to be very very hot, which wouldnt feel too good either. Fire also refers to the creation of a new fire. So for example, if you light a candle on the eve of Shabbat, you cannot touch it on Shabbat and it stays lit. A car uses sparks to create fire to move, which is most likely why it cannot be used on shabbat.
THe sparks in cars are not fire at all:
And do not try to distract by showing you have not read about the Feynman story:) ….
He was being asked by these students wether electricity is fire…
he thought some time, explaining that fire is a sign of an electro-magnetic interaction, with a change of electrons, a transfer of chareges, which you therefore could call being electric. That was all they needed, they didn’t allow him to explain further.
I will do that :):
Now you nerves work by transfering charges, electro-magnetic interaction… which therefore is electricity which is fire.
Sitting on a chair: You do not fall through it because of electro-magnetic interaction between your outer electrons and the chairs… If i was orthodox, i would call it fire.
Anytthing that has to do with chemistry, that includes all bio-chemistry, that includes everything that happens inside oyur body: includes transfer of charges, electro-magnetic interaction… therefore is fire…This stance is among the most non-understandable for me in all religions:
Ultra-orthodox judaism… trying to adapt modern day things to old records by not understanding the modern things on purpose.No, F_alk, once again you are making conclusions based on a lack of facts. Firstly, to make such a law as to whether electricity is allowed takes more than a simple arguement of thinking. I don’t know where you read that story, but I have not heard of it in my life and I dont think any of my more religious friends have either. The reason cars are considered fire is because they combust hydrocarbons, burning them up to produce the waste products of combustion. Electricity may not be fire directly, but it may fall under one of the other 39 categories of things that are not allowed on Shabbat. Your arguement is completely baseless and is attmepting to use what perhaps is a small section of a larger picture. When it comes down to it, electricity was not allowed. This was not done by one rabbi but by many over a period of many months, possibly years. If you want to understand the Talmud, you have to study it. Here, let me give you an example.
I’m going to ask you a question and I want you to answer it. Just answer the question and you can even post your reasoning. Everybody, please leave this to F_alk.
Case: Two people are cleaning a chimney and both fall down through it. One of them is clean and the other is dirty. Which one washes himself?
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people combust hydrocarbons, burning them up to produce the waste products of combustion . . . .
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