1939: World at War

[Mr Ghoul]

Again I say, both of you need to actually read some history on WW2,

[TG Moses VI]

Heh… how do you compare production numbers?

[Guest]

@Mr:

@TG:

Anyways, if that’s what you think, you should definitely read more literature on WW2.

In terms of what? :-?

The fact that you think Russia could have beaten the Axis on its own.

The fact that historians have calculated that 7/8 of the ENTIRE German war effort was on the Russian front, is really telling. Essentially the war in Europe was between Germany and Russia.

[Mr Ghoul]

@TG:

Heh… how do you compare production numbers?

You said that Russia could take both Germany and Japan on its own.
Which I understood as no Allied help.
If Germany and Japan were just fighting Russia and Russia alone……
Its lights out for the commies.

[TG Moses VI]

I dunno, even if Japan did invade Russia, they would have eventually ended up overextending themselves like the Germans (only this time, the time to Moscow is much, much further). It would only be a matter of time before the Russian struck back - en force.

[cystic crypt]

@TG:

I dunno, even if Japan did invade Russia, they would have eventually ended up overextending themselves like the Germans (only this time, the time to Moscow is much, much further). It would only be a matter of time before the Russian struck back - en force.

with what force?
the one occupied with the Germans?

Also w.r.t. the whole “accuracy/balance” debate, I think that A&A does not a bad job of getting both together. Each nation has its strengths and weaknesses based loosely on WWII history, with similar field/naval placements etc.
And i agree that although historical accuracy is nice, what is the point of playing against an equal opponant if you know which one of you is going to lose (or win) the game every time? For example Mr. Ghoul, if you and i were to play game X - perfectly balanced, i believe that it would be around a 60/40 - 40/60 split for us as to who would win (giving us a bit of a window) as i think that we are fairly comparitive in our abilities etc. At the same time, if every time we played we knew that there was a 90/10 or so, it would take some of the fun out, no?
Nothing you didn’t already know, but we need to find another way of making things more “historically accurate” while maintaining balance.

[TG Moses VI]

with what force?
the one occupied with the Germans?

The Russians had a 30 million man army. I think an amble force could’ve been diverted to hold the Japanese - at least until the Germans were pushed back.

[Drumstix]

I’ve never played, how do each sides win.
And how can the Germans and the Japanese win if Russia’s at 88 and America’s at 110?

[TG Moses VI]

No, but this might mirror real life. :)

[EmuGod]

There’s no way Russia could have defeated Germany and Japan historically. The Russians were alreayd losing to Germany alone. Against Japan too they would not have been able to hold out.

[TG Moses VI]

There’s no way Russia could have defeated Germany and Japan historically. The Russians were alreayd losing to Germany alone.

Hmm… me thinks Russian had already won the war on Germany by December 1941.

[Drumstix]

Wasn’t Stalingrad the turn point on the war? (well atleast European war)

[TG Moses VI]

Even before the battle of Staingrad, the outcome of the war was already decided.

[EmuGod]

Now way. By spring of 1942 things were looking very grim for the allies. The Soviet Union appeared to be on the verge of collapse, Rommel was on the attack in Africa and the Japanese had taken the Dutch East Indies, Malaya, Singapore, Borneo Celebes and were preparing to sweep through the Solomons and New Guinea and were planning on tkaing Hawaii, the Aleutians, Midway and even Alaska.

Had the Japanese been fighting the Sovietso n anothet front, the Soviets would have had to divdie their forces which would have led to their collapse. Don’t forget that Stalin had to bring in hard core veterans from Siberia to help fight the Germans and if the Japanese were closing on Siberia from the east, these precious forces would have been bogged down fighting the Japanese. By 1942 over 40% of the Soviet Union was in German hands. Stalin tried to disillusion the people by making his first broadcast over the radio with his Foreign Affairs Minister, Molotov. HE claimed that German losses were at 3 million while the soviets had suffered less than 500,000 but the Germans controlled 40% of the Soviet Union and were continuing to advance. It was Hitler’s foolishness that led to the Soviet victories at Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad and eventually at Kursk.

[TG Moses VI]

Now way. By spring of 1942 things were looking very grim for the allies. The Soviet Union appeared to be on the verge of collapse, Rommel was on the attack in Africa and the Japanese had taken the Dutch East Indies, Malaya, Singapore, Borneo Celebes and were preparing to sweep through the Solomons and New Guinea and were planning on tkaing Hawaii, the Aleutians, Midway and even Alaska.

Psk… the Soviet Union ony “appeared” on the verge of collapse to the Germans. In reality, Russia was significantly outproducing Germany by 1942. Rommel couldn’t have taken the Suez Canal. He was way too stretched out and would be stopped by the Brits at El Alemein (Monty was way too cautious - could’ve crushed the Afrika Korps there and then). The Japanese were on a spree, though it would’ve been better if they consolidated their gains and dug in.

Had the Japanese been fighting the Sovietso n anothet front, the Soviets would have had to divdie their forces which would have led to their collapse.

By 1942 over 40% of the Soviet Union was in German hands. Stalin tried to disillusion the people by making his first broadcast over the radio with his Foreign Affairs Minister, Molotov. HE claimed that German losses were at 3 million while the soviets had suffered less than 500,000 but the Germans controlled 40% of the Soviet Union and were continuing to advance. It was Hitler’s foolishness that led to the Soviet victories at Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad and eventually at Kursk.

The German High Command was stupid. Aldolf should’ve listened to Gneral Heinz Guderian and retreated from Russia, setting up a defensive line at the Polish Border - while they still had the chance. After the failed offensive at Russia in the Fall/Winter of 1941 - they had no chance of winning. SUD probably knows more about this than I do, but the Germans didn’t stand a chance to the Russians.

Had the Japanese been fighting the Sovietso n anothet front, the Soviets would have had to divdie their forces which would have led to their collapse.

You don’t know how the Russians fight. They would would let the Japanese come, then smash them wth artillery followed by huge armored assaults after Stalin felt they had advanced enough. Japanese tanks were no match for Russian T-34s

[EmuGod]

The Germans were winning. The Russians were only outporducing hte Germans because Hitler assumed victory would be achieved in 1941 and stopped production for the land military and focused on the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. Had the Germans continued to produce for their land military, they could have had the reinforcements needed to take Russia.

[TG Moses VI]

The Germans did not begin switching to a war-time economy until Feb. 1943.

[cystic crypt]

@EmuGod:

The Germans were winning. The Russians were only outporducing hte Germans because Hitler assumed victory would be achieved in 1941 and stopped production for the land military and focused on the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. Had the Germans continued to produce for their land military, they could have had the reinforcements needed to take Russia.

the Germans also neglected supplies via rail for the Eastern front in favor of shipping more Jews to the extermination camps. The Nazi’s (Hitler) were so consumed with this final solution that the soldiers of the east soon found themselves poorly supplied, and eventually defeated (not saying this is the sole reason for the defeat, however it did not hurt).

[TM Moses VII]

Japan had a strong very good chance of seizing Russian Ports along the Sea of Okhotsk, but, other than that, I do not think they could have made it any further into Russia. Most of the eastern Soviet Union was a frozen tundra. More likely the would Japanese concentrated more on China, Far East Asia, and the Pacific Islands.

[TG Moses VI]

The Japan already had their hands tied up in China and Burma/India – I doubt they could’ve done much good against the Russkies.