Face-to-Face Tournament Rules

[smo63]

@questioneer:

2. Prizes- I know you have a nice prize stash for the winners at Gencon and Origins.  However, having a prize for everyone there is huge.  For example at the Dominion qualifier, we charged $5 for the tourny.  With that cash I was able to buy prizes for everyone.  RioGrandeGames gave me free promos for everyone+ we had free raffles for the new Base Cards -$11 a piece- we got 8 of them.  Plenty of prizes went out and people left the tournament at least getting something and several others much more.  This made people very happy and I got rave reviews about the tourny online and in-person.

For AA, I would ask WOTC if they have any cheap giveaways and for all the players that come- free raffle them off.  For example I would ask them for things like the old IC pieces or IPC money maybe.  For an event like yours they should be putting out some things for everyone coming.  Personally if it was me I would get the cheap extra AA pieces and money at HistoricalBoardGaming.com.  It pays to have a lot of cheap, mass quantity items to give away by the dozens.  Its nice to have the big prizes (trophies, games) for the winners but that can get expensive I’m sure unless WOTC is putting out the $$$$ for that.  Maybe you already do this- just wanted to share some thoughts on what worked with us on the Dominion side of things.

Q, I know you have not been to GEN CON in awhile, but basically, we do this now.  We have a prize give away on Sunday around noon-1pm for all those that participated in any 1 AA event.  I give out door prize tickets and give away tons of stuff for everyone.

And with that being said, I always trying and have enough for most if not all that come and play.  Like a pen or something…and a lot of stuff does already come from vendors like HBG (thanks Doug!)…

I guess this brings up a point that must be brought to light regarding anyone that questions what we do and why we do what we do at the CON’s.  If someone hasn’t been there, and hasn’t been there more recently, how can anyone say anything negative about players, the rules systems, prizes etc. for anything we do for FTF play without knowing all the facts?  And then proceed in making comments on threads and eventually causing a big stir…?

Hey, we will be the first ones to say we don’t know everything about FTF play and AA in general and are ALWAYS OPEN to new ideas, suggestions and the like.  It is just when onlinerss (and that includes those that play FTF online, I guess if that is possible, but then that is where my lack of knowledge about playing online starts and stops and I won’t make comments on how that version of AA is played or what works better for that crowd) start jumping the gun before they really know and can comment on the experience first hand.

[smo63]

Ok, onto the topic of online calculaters etc.

First off, I want to start off with a boring story that I heard on the radio the other day regarding the Colorado shooting at the Batman movie…

The guest was talking about one of the biggest problems we have in society has to do with the younger generation not being able to cope with society and a lot of it has to do with the fact that they are so techniologically driven, it is like don’t know how to interact FTF with others.  THey were saying that it is so sad that the younger generation doesn’t know how to communicate with others because it is so much easier to text and avoid any type of relationship FTF.  From dating, to friends at school, Work etc…

Where I am going with this is that what we are talking about is kind of the same thing when it comes to FTF vs. online play.  I AM NOT TRYING TO SAY ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER, just that, with online play, people do it because one, they have a hard time getting games to play just period, and then there is the factors that they get used to playing without human interaction, when it does happen, they have no idea how to deal with it.

Ex. I believe somewhere back I used an example of a guys that would rather play Settlers online because when he plays FTF, he hates the interaction with others and the possiblity of something completely off the wall that might be logical in a ftf setting but when playing online, would never happen.

The point I am trying to make is the use of AI in a FTF event.  I would like that a professor of your stature would understand the simplicity of why I typically don’t permit electronic devices in tournment games at the CON’s.  If one wants to do the math in their head and right it down, AND IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE GAME AT HAND, then have at it.  And as long as your opponent can do the same thing without taking away from the game at hand, have at it.

But I don’t care if an app on ones phone is free, or easily accessable to you and the other 5% that might be intersted in that, if your opponent sits down and doesn’t have their phone with them, and doesn’t have the app you have, then I am not going to permit it.

And that has nothing to do with “getting with the times”.  It has to do with learning how to play a game for what it is, playing well and without all the ads that one can get off line.

If one can’t understand that, then I have to question anyones understanding of the learning process and means to be good at something in ones head and not using AI to aid us in our decisions.

That is what I call getting with the times and being good at what you do.

[smo63]

@questioneer:

Yeah I guess these are the kind of things that I would clear up before the game started.  “Are we going to use paper and pencil for anything???”  “Will it be OK to change the buys after a combat move if no dice for any battles have been rolled.”  With the improvement of technology- especially phones it will be harder and harder to accuse someone of “spying” or calculating.

For example, say I’m playing and and there is a key battle.  My partner can slip out to the bathroom or down the hall and use the AA app to calculate- even text back the results.  There is no way to be able to micro-manage or enforce these “no technology” rules.  You can’t force people to put their phones away or stalk them.  Same with spying.  You can’t stop.  There will always be people who can find the tech angle to anything especially with people who are fluent in the latest technology.  That’s why its best to just allow it IMO.

See Q, you are living in another world when it comes to how these things are played.  NO ONE, in their right mind has ever nor would ever think about doing that unless you are an online enabler and can’t think for yourself when it comes to playing a game…

I personally don’t think nor should I, have to worry about something like that.  Come to and event now, and you will understand.

No I won’t tell anyone to put their phones away, but if you have that little confidence in your game play that you have to resort to that kind of lack of sportsmenship…that is why I won’t allow it IMO.  And again, if your opponent doesn’t have their phone with them, then why should anyone be able to use it…

[squirecam]

I havent seen someone ever try to use an app like that in a FTF game. If you know it cant be used…then follow the rules.

Like the others said, if you have so little confidence in your game…you can try to cheat.

So far no one at gencon has tried that.

[smo63]

@squirecam:

I havent seen someone ever try to use an app like that in a FTF game. If you know it cant be used…then follow the rules.

Like the others said, if you have so little confidence in your game…you can try to cheat.

So far no one at gencon has tried that.

Yeap…agreed.  I can’t remember one case?  Hey, played 1942 again last night.  Not sure how the UK ever builds a Navy in Atlantic.  Or US for that matter?

Hey and the Optional rules does have interceptors?

[questioneer]

@smo63:

The point I am trying to make is the use of AI in a FTF event.  I would like that a professor of your stature would understand the simplicity of why I typically don’t permit electronic devices in tournment games at the CON’s.  If one wants to do the math in their head and right it down, AND IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE GAME AT HAND, then have at it.  **And as long as your opponent can do the same thing without taking away from the game at hand, have at it. **

But I don’t care if an app on ones phone is free, or easily accessable to you and the other 5% that might be intersted in that, if your opponent sits down and doesn’t have their phone with them, and doesn’t have the app you have, then I am not going to permit it. Â

Ok, long overlydrawn Batman analogy aside, your saying here that if I play in your tournament and I also allow my opponent to use my phone also with the AACalc, giving him “equal access to the tool” (heck I’ll even show him how to use it) then all is fair and I can use it right???  That’s what it sounds like to me.

[questioneer]

@smo63:

@questioneer:

2. Prizes- I know you have a nice prize stash for the winners at Gencon and Origins.  However, having a prize for everyone there is huge.  For example at the Dominion qualifier, we charged $5 for the tourny.  With that cash I was able to buy prizes for everyone.  RioGrandeGames gave me free promos for everyone+ we had free raffles for the new Base Cards -$11 a piece- we got 8 of them.  Plenty of prizes went out and people left the tournament at least getting something and several others much more.  This made people very happy and I got rave reviews about the tourny online and in-person.

For AA, I would ask WOTC if they have any cheap giveaways and for all the players that come- free raffle them off.  For example I would ask them for things like the old IC pieces or IPC money maybe.  For an event like yours they should be putting out some things for everyone coming.  Personally if it was me I would get the cheap extra AA pieces and money at HistoricalBoardGaming.com.  It pays to have a lot of cheap, mass quantity items to give away by the dozens.  Its nice to have the big prizes (trophies, games) for the winners but that can get expensive I’m sure unless WOTC is putting out the $$$$ for that.  Maybe you already do this- just wanted to share some thoughts on what worked with us on the Dominion side of things.

Q, I know you have not been to GEN CON in awhile, but basically, we do this now.  We have a prize give away on Sunday around noon-1pm for all those that participated in any 1 AA event.  I give out door prize tickets and give away tons of stuff for everyone. Â

And with that being said, I always trying and have enough for most if not all that come and play.  Like a pen or something…and a lot of stuff does already come from vendors like HBG (thanks Doug!)…

I guess this brings up a point that must be brought to light regarding anyone that questions what we do and why we do what we do at the CON’s.  If someone hasn’t been there, and hasn’t been there more recently, how can anyone say anything negative about players, the rules systems, prizes etc. for anything we do for FTF play without knowing all the facts?  And then proceed in making comments on threads and eventually causing a big stir…?

Hey, we will be the first ones to say we don’t know everything about FTF play and AA in general and are ALWAYS OPEN to new ideas, suggestions and the like.  It is just when onlinerss (and that includes those that play FTF online, I guess if that is possible, but then that is where my lack of knowledge about playing online starts and stops and I won’t make comments on how that version of AA is played or what works better for that crowd) start jumping the gun before they really know and can comment on the experience first hand.

This is good to hear, my apologies- it has been a few years since I came.

[squirecam]

@questioneer:

@smo63:

The point I am trying to make is the use of AI in a FTF event. � I would like that a professor of your stature would understand the simplicity of why I typically don’t permit electronic devices in tournment games at the CON’s. � If one wants to do the math in their head and right it down, AND IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE GAME AT HAND, then have at it. � **And as long as your opponent can do the same thing without taking away from the game at hand, have at it. **

But I don’t care if an app on ones phone is free, or easily accessable to you and the other 5% that might be intersted in that, if your opponent sits down and doesn’t have their phone with them, and doesn’t have the app you have, then I am not going to permit it. �Â

Ok, long overlydrawn Batman analogy aside, your saying here that if I play in your tournament and I also allow my opponent to use my phone also with the AACalc, giving him “equal access to the tool” (heck I’ll even show him how to use it) then all is fair and I can use it right???  That’s what it sounds like to me.

You cannot use electronic calculators. Period.

[smo63]

@squirecam:

@questioneer:

@smo63:

The point I am trying to make is the use of AI in a FTF event. �� I would like that a professor of your stature would understand the simplicity of why I typically don’t permit electronic devices in tournment games at the CON’s. �� If one wants to do the math in their head and right it down, AND IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE GAME AT HAND, then have at it. �� **And as long as your opponent can do the same thing without taking away from the game at hand, have at it.�  **

But I don’t care if an app on ones phone is free, or easily accessable to you and the other 5% that might be intersted in that, if your opponent sits down and doesn’t have their phone with them, and doesn’t have the app you have, then I am not going to permit it. ��

Ok, long overlydrawn Batman analogy aside, your saying here that if I play in your tournament and I also allow my opponent to use my phone also with the AACalc, giving him “equal access to the tool” (heck I’ll even show him how to use it) then all is fair and I can use it right???�  That’s what it sounds like to me.

You cannot use electronic calculators. Period.

Yeap…it is now in the rules as well.  Thanks Q…

http://smo63.fatcow.com/pdf/G40rules81.pdf

and

http://smo63.fatcow.com/pdf/2012EndTimeRules730.pdf

Dave,  Also above is the stalling rules that you asked about…

Greg

[questioneer]

@questioneer:

@smo63:

The point I am trying to make is the use of AI in a FTF event. � I would like that a professor of your stature would understand the simplicity of why I typically don’t permit electronic devices in tournment games at the CON’s. � If one wants to do the math in their head and right it down, AND IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE GAME AT HAND, then have at it. � **And as long as your opponent can do the same thing without taking away from the game at hand, have at it. **

But I don’t care if an app on ones phone is free, or easily accessable to you and the other 5% that might be intersted in that, if your opponent sits down and doesn’t have their phone with them, and doesn’t have the app you have, then I am not going to permit it. �Â

Ok, long overlydrawn Batman analogy aside, your saying here that if I play in your tournament and I also allow my opponent to use my phone also with the AACalc, giving him “equal access to the tool” (heck I’ll even show him how to use it) then all is fair and I can use it right???  That’s what it sounds like to me.

Greg,

Looks like you tried to answer but the forum didn’t pick it up for some reason…answer to this???

[smo63]

@questioneer:

@questioneer:

@smo63:

The point I am trying to make is the use of AI in a FTF event. �� I would like that a professor of your stature would understand the simplicity of why I typically don’t permit electronic devices in tournment games at the CON’s. �� If one wants to do the math in their head and right it down, AND IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE GAME AT HAND, then have at it. �� **And as long as your opponent can do the same thing without taking away from the game at hand, have at it.� **

But I don’t care if an app on ones phone is free, or easily accessable to you and the other 5% that might be intersted in that, if your opponent sits down and doesn’t have their phone with them, and doesn’t have the app you have, then I am not going to permit it. ��

Ok, long overlydrawn Batman analogy aside, your saying here that if I play in your tournament and I also allow my opponent to use my phone also with the AACalc, giving him “equal access to the tool” (heck I’ll even show him how to use it) then all is fair and I can use it right???�  That’s what it sounds like to me.

Greg,

Looks like you tried to answer but the forum didn’t pick it up for some reason…answer to this???

Yeah, can’t find what I wrote now?  Oh, well…

[squirecam]

I think he agreed with something you said…and the server blew up. :evil:

[smo63]

You might be right…all I know is that I can’t find it.  Regardless, that is my story and I am sticky to it…

[questioneer]

@smo63:

You might be right…all I know is that I can’t find it.  Regardless, that is my story and I am sticky to it…

So…what did you say about my question above???

[smo63]

Not sure, what were we talking about?  FTF tournaments?

[questioneer]

@smo63:

Not sure, what were we talking about?  FTF tournaments?

Yes, go back and read.

[questioneer]

Just looked at your new “end time rules”.  A little more refined and detailed which is nice.  No phones/electronic devices rule- fair enough.  Don’t really see how this “cheats” the game or how its “not fair” even if I let my opponent use it but whatever, its your tourny, your call.  I could play with or without it.  Having these available would speed up the game and end time rules wouldn’t be such an issue.

Speaking of which I would have to practice using these end time rules a couple of times.  Someone could cry wolf as Allies to speed the game up.  If I were Allies I would cry wolf in the early rounds, as I can play the first few rounds of any of these games fairly fast.  As Axis one would want to slow the game down.  The GM would be the one to determine what defines “stalling”.  This is why I like chess clocks because then that is out of the GMs hands.  One can’t argue with the clock.  However the financial side of chess clocks makes it tough on everyone which I understand.  With these end time rules one could, work the system, to tailor it to their opening(s).

Also, I do like the minimum round column, however, if both are playing slow and they don’t get to 6 six rounds by the end of the stoppage time, are they both disqualified???  I could see both pointing the finger at each other blaming the other team for “stalling”.  Don’t get me wrong its a much better system than before but not foolproof.  I’ll have to try the end time system at home along with the chess clock for a couple of games.

For minimum round column- G40 should be 11-12 not 8-10.  All the other games go a round past the hours given and even though G40 has more countries to take a turn most of those countries are played very quickly.  France and China are nil.  ANZAC and Italy are fairly quick also.  The rest of the countries take no more time than the 42 game.

I’m not ripping your system Greg, I’m just interested how they playout vs. using a chess clock.  I’m sure for most of the players there it works.  For the more competitive AA players like the ones I know here on this site, they would work the system and exploit the loopholes.  I post results from these test games in the next month or two.  Should be interesting.  Have fun at GenCon!

[djensen]

Chess clocks are easily manipulated. It’s my turn, I make attacks, you need to chose casualties, and instead you can sit there and debate about it for minutes eating away at my time.

In chess, a player never has to wait during their own time for their opponent to do something.

I don’t think chess clocks are the answer.

[djensen]

I had an idea that I briefly chatted with Greg and, I think, Mike over the weekend.

The biggest trouble in a tournament is time. First, you have to limit the time on games in order to even hold such an event in a short period of time (yes 1 to 3.5 days is short). The next trouble about time is not knowing how many turns you will complete in 4.75 hours. For 42SE, in very bad cases, 4 rounds, and in very good cases 7 rounds.

What if you make a bid for both IPCs and number of rounds?

I can win with the Allies with 12 IPCs in 6 rounds. I don’t know how bidding works from there but that’s how it starts.

As for penalties for not finishing your bid rounds in the allotted time, I’m not sure about that either.

[djensen]

@squirecam:

You cannot use electronic calculators. Period.

This was painful after nights of very few hours of sleep and your opponent hits you with a strategic bombing. A calculator would’ve speed up some of my purchase optimizations. Beyond that, I didn’t see much need for it.

With a calculator, the rule should be like the dice. Feel free to bring one but if you opponent requests to use it, you can’t say no. If both players don’t have one, no problem.