Sink the UK-AC in GT2!?!

[Ansbach]

The Germany Turn 1 move F_alk mentioned is a conservative move used to keep the German navy around for another turn. If Germany takes Gibraltar, then the Western Med. SZ (and German navy) is safe from UK fighters on UK1.

“If the british player decides to strengthen africa with his indian troops, well i don’t mind that, that only helps my japanese ally to waltz through.”

Japan might not mind it, but Germany certainly does! :(

Usually the game is won or lost in Africa - 9 times out of 10 a UK1 counterstrike in Africa is a better move than defending India on turn 1…
If I’m the Allies I want Germany out of Africa ASAP!

Just my 2 cents.

[Guest]

@Ansbach:

The Germany Turn 1 move F_alk mentioned is a conservative move used to keep the German navy around for another turn. If Germany takes Gibraltar, then the Western Med. SZ (and German navy) is safe from UK fighters on UK1.
…
Usually the game is won or lost in Africa - 9 times out of 10 a UK1 counterstrike in Africa is a better move than defending India on turn 1…
If I’m the Allies I want Germany out of Africa ASAP!

Keeping the navy alive let’s germany shovel at least two other Inf into Africa, plus maybe even more if transpot and BB stick together (plus maybe an occasional offshore bombardment).

[Guest]

first @Ansbach again: 16+ inf against eastern Europe means a weak Caucasus, so I would prefer an agressive conterstrategy against Russia now: Needing transported inf in Caucasus/Ukraine the only battleship-job is to sink UK-battleship and keep UK-fighters out of Karelia for 2 rounds of play.
I wouldn’t play above stategy now, so don’t discuss it here

@Xi:
1.) without taking africa you have to imagin there’s nearly no pressur from UK or US to Europe meanlands for 3-4 rounds of play, if you sink UK-homefleet a second time.
And Japan would be faster, if UK deforces India

2.)If you change strategy in GT2 to take africa attacking AES (only if UK-sub doesn’t block next to Italy) you have to ad one German inf more. (1 Lyb, 1 Centralafrica, 2 by trn from ALG and Gibr.)
Maybe (I don’t know rules here) you can ad one Battleshipshot sinking sub with other air/naval units first.

But I think I wouln’t attack them now if they as strong as you force them, I prefer to sink UK-sub and inforce western africa first.

@TG Moses VI:
1.) With RR all German strategys are much more easier. (but my Axis&Allies-friends including me wouldn’t allow it, we just play it 4-5 times)
With RR Germany got 5th fighter to attack AES in T1 or somthing else.
You recive 1 fighter attacking UK-homefleet with Baltic-sub, and you can transport some inf between Finnland and European Meanland. Now I’m nearly sure this will normaly work for the beginning of Game.

2. Cause we played only with allied factories in asia I’ve got no experience about Japans speed without them. So I respect your Opinion about it. Maybe just try it with extra navals in italy and against defencive russian player.
   But imagine: Would you as UK-player purchase an AC, if a strong german naval- and airforce is in reach. If not Germany can strike into africa now.

3.) ALG-inf can transported with Gib-one together imeadeatly T2, or conterattack UK-tank, if it had attacked lonly G-inf in Lybia or Centralafrica

@guest:
In this strategy the value of conquering Gibralta is to keep UK fighters away from my battleship.

@Yanni:
Strongest arguement of my strategy is, you can change strategy easily, if luck wasn’t yours in T1.
But together with sub, trn, bs, bmb and 3 fght against ac, 2 fght and 2-3 trn there´s also a realy good chance of German suvive with bmb and 2 fght.
Remember Germany has to risk somthing to win the game!

@Ansbach: If strategy works I’ll try to win game by blocking UK/US reaching France/Norway/Karelia or somewhat, not in africa at al costs

@ F_alk: Yippieee someone on my side
Little point: ALG-inf is not going south, it goes sout-east to front AES and Lybia in one time

[Xi]

N_, sorry. This time I’ll take 20 years of playing various scenarios and levels of players, not to mention making one or two(SHUT UP, guys!) mistakes of my own. If you wanna get stuck in a rut, I won’t stop ya. - Xi
–----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“When God sneezed, I didn’t know what to say.” - Henny Youngman

A moment of levity - Xi

[Ansbach]

Newby: Your Germany Turn 1 strategy is not that crazy. What is total suicide is you Germany Turn 2 plan of hitting the fleet again. The German battleship is probably the single most important piece Germany has at the beginning of the game, and it is the Allies #1 target. It is so important that no one will even mention how important it is because it’s a given that you won’t have it very long! :lol: Sending it to England is just making the Allies job easy. Losing your planes is just as bad - they are vital to the defense of Germany and you can’t afford to replace them.

Also, btw - the US transport can just move to the AZO sea zone on US1 and then the German navy can’t hit the North Sea. But I wouldn’t do that because I want to sucker you in to hitting the fleet.

The main problem is that you are only looking at the short term situation and not at the long term one. Think of Germany’s position in 5-10 turns, not in 1-2. Germany has to have the extra income from Africa to be able to survive. Germany has to have it’s airforce to defend against a 3-pronged attack from the Allies - it can’t afford to replace fighters.

Regarding Russia Restricted: Without RR, an experience Allied player can win about 95% of the time. Even with RR, the Allies can win about 80% of the time so you have to play with bidding, but that’s a whole new post… it’s not important to play RR if both sides are relatively new to the game, but you might want to start anyway so that everyone get used to playing that way.

[TG Moses VI]

Keeping the navy alive let’s germany shovel at least two other Inf into Africa, plus maybe even more if transpot and BB stick together (plus maybe an occasional offshore bombardment).

You NEVER want to seperate your transport and BB.

The Germany Turn 1 move F_alk mentioned is a conservative move used to keep the German navy around for another turn. If Germany takes Gibraltar, then the Western Med. SZ (and German navy) is safe from UK fighters on UK1.

This isn’t so much of a problem if you play with 2-hit BB’s. Most of the time UK fighters fly to Russia instead.

But imagine: Would you as UK-player purchase an AC, if a strong german naval- and airforce is in reach. If not Germany can strike into africa now.

If it means the destruction of Germany’s navy and airforce with it, I definately would. The Allies can easily replace its losses, but once Germany loses its ftrs, it can never do so again.

[Yanny]

Never, ever, ever , ever, ever, ever, ever make a strategy based on luck. They always fail.

I always assume the worst case scenario when planning ahead.

[Guest]

@Ansbach:
which job for G-BB is better than sinkink UK-BB;AC and couple of TRN? protecting single TRN to inforce 2 inf per turn to Africa is not enough even if UK and US will attack Africa from east and west, Caucasus is well protected mostly and allies got enought time to send in airforce or something to sink BB later.

T2 I’ll only attack North sea, if I just expect a surviving of 3 planes.

Only long term strategy ever, if allies just attack German position is waiting for Japan.
Of course I’m not experienced about that, but a 2nd UK/US-AC means 6 allied inf less in later turns not calculating allies TRN-loss. Africa just means 3 inf per turn and you have to protect it, if you be able to conquer it.

@TG Moses VI: Strong German naval- and airforce means 3 planes will “normaly” survive (of course: dices doesn’t roll normaly but this is the risk of the Game)

@Yanny: I talked about the luck of normal calculated dicerollls (2 fighter = 1hit in one battleround). Without these you can’t win anyway.

And in otherway your strategy looks to fail too cause allies are to strong just see last post of Ansbach above. So risk somethig or play chess (don’t take this serious :roll: )

[Yanny]

Thats why we bid )

[Ansbach]

@newby:

@Ansbach:
which job for G-BB is better than sinkink UK-BB;AC and couple of TRN? protecting single TRN to inforce 2 inf per turn to Africa is not enough…

Which job is better? Protecting a single transport to inforce 2 infantry per turn to Africa is better. Every German infantry sent to Africa in the first few turns is worth it’s weight in gold!

[Guest]

@F_alk:

@Anonymous:

I would never attack Gib. unless the Allied foolishly parked a bomber there. It is not worth IPCs nor does it have any strategic value that I can see,

The strategic value is that it denies fighter access from british mainland to africa and the mediterranean, once you have placed an Inf in the two western north african countries (Algier? Marocco?).
If done in turn one ( with the Inf on the transport going into Algier, and the one Inf there marching south, you have quite an efficient block against allied ad-hoc reinforcements in africa.
If the british player decides to strengthen africa with his indian troops, well i don’t mind that, that only helps my japanese ally to waltz through.

Yes, but I have been in games where the British will move their AC to the seazone directly below England (can’t remember its name right now) where the allies can fly planes off the carrier to attack Africa (using the American BB, transports and a few subs, if I remember right, as defense in the North Sea). I was playing as America and the German player did nothing, apparently assuming he was going to lose Africa eventually anyway. I don’t think I would have tried to attack the AC or North Sea fleet either if I were playing Germany, because I would want to save the fighters for defense and possibly for attacking the Russian forces or something in Africa.

Another game I played, also a while back was that America bought an AC and put it in the seazone south of England leaving the North Sea protected by the British AC. This seems to me to be very expensive (I was playing Japan in that game), but the allies still won.

Having this action a possibility for the allies seems to me to lessen the strategic value of Gib.

Any thoughts about whether or not Germany should attack the navies?

[Yanny]

The best way to assure an Axis victory is to get Germany into Africa, and stay there. Force the allies to put up a real hard fight for Africa, and when they do put some heavy pressure on Russia. That’ll force em back to helping Russia, buying you more time in Africa.

[Xi]

Newb,
Using RR and 2 hit BB rules is the way I play(almost always, sometimes bidding). With this USSR must send TRN and SS(sub) to defend in UK sz.

In this situation (as Germany[G]) I almost always purchase 1 TRN & 8 INF.

Combat: 1) 1 INF from ALG to FWA(walk in),
2) 1 ARM & 1 INF from LIB to FEA(roll/walk in),
Luftwaffe, Unterseabooten and TRN attack the UK sz fleet and GIB BB. I almost never lose more than 2 SS and 1 TRN in the sz battles.

Noncom: move FTRs back to WE and EE, BMR to WE, TRN 2 INF from SE to LIB

Placement: 6 INF in GER, 2 INF in SE (for TRN G2) and 1 TRN in SE sz.

With a 2 hit BB and 2 TRN in CMED sz, hich only 1 UK BMR and 1 UK SS can reach UK2, my fleet is either intact or reduced to only 1 TRN.

I always make sure I leave 1 ARM and 2 INF in SE for transport on G2 if no UK attack has happened.

Most folks I play don’t pull out of IND to AES. this makes my play harder. - Xi

I agree with F_k and Y_'s last posts.

[TG Moses VI]

Yes, but I have been in games where the British will move their AC to the seazone directly below England (can’t remember its name right now) where the allies can fly planes off the carrier to attack Africa (using the American BB, transports and a few subs, if I remember right, as defense in the North Sea). I was playing as America and the German player did nothing, apparently assuming he was going to lose Africa eventually anyway. I don’t think I would have tried to attack the AC or North Sea fleet either if I were playing Germany, because I would want to save the fighters for defense and possibly for attacking the Russian forces or something in Africa.

Hmmm… smart move. Especially if used in conjunction with the Africa landings.

The best way to assure an Axis victory is to get Germany into Africa, and stay there. Force the allies to put up a real hard fight for Africa, and when they do put some heavy pressure on Russia. That’ll force em back to helping Russia, buying you more time in Africa.

As a rule of thumb, you usually don’t want to send more inf than is required to Africa. Often times I see players (German) buying an additional transport and shipping 4 inf to Africa each turn to deal with the Allied landings at the North West. What they should rather do is slowly retreat my forces easterward. Instead they drain so much inf out of Europe, that the Germans are totally unprepared for a massive Russian buildup that the Germans can’t hope to match.

[Wild2000]

:lol:

[TG Moses VI]

Exactly what Wild said. Concentrate too much on Africa and you lose control as Europe. Never send more than 2 inf a turn to Africa (and only if needed), any more than that and you spread too thin. What I see a lot now to counter an Africa build is now for the Allies to lure Germany into a false sense of Operation Torch and instead going for Operation Overlord. With so many forces going to Africa and the remaining stationed in EE, the Allies can literally wreck havok on WE and put a classic pincer on Germany. Game Over, you’re done.

[Yanny]

My first turn buy as Germany is always 8 Infantry 1 Transport (assuming I didn’t buy one with bid). Works well for me. I can get enough troops in Africa to hold it for a long time, or until Japan can help out. Keeps Germany in the game against Russia longer. Keep in mind though, I usually swing around to South Africa by J3. I play very aggressive with the Axis.

[Ansbach]

@Wild2000:

I keep reading about all of this German troop movement to Africa and cannot help to say that it is way over rated. First of all, a couple of troops sent to Africa is okay.

The Axis win or lose the game based on what happens in Africa - kind of hard to overrate that. Sending troops to Africa is a little more than OK - if Germany doesn’t do it, they have ZERO chance of winning against a decent Allied player. The most important front line in the game is EE vs. Karelia - Germany has to hold out long enough to get help from Japan. The amount of extra German income from Africa is what makes the difference on that line.

Your post is good advice IF Germany sends too many troops to Africa. That’s a very big ‘if’ because if Germany doesn’t leave themselves weak in Europe, then you sure as hell better send some Allied troops to Africa ASAP or they will only get stronger! What’s more, as the Allied player you shouldn’t even allow that to be an option for Germany.

A good German player will be well aware of the danger of sending too many troops to Africa - if he even get’s the chance, which he usually won’t against a good Allied player. Your game is a good example of what you are warning against: A bid of 2-3 extra INF in Africa with RR is pretty standard - most players would consider that a fair game. If the German player lost WEu and EEu by turn 6 he either wasn’t very good or had an off game, and one of his mistakes was sending too many troops to Africa.

TG is closer to the mark - you should send 2 inf a turn as long as you can… which will only be 2 or 3 turns. If you have been buying enough infantry and have kept your planes alive, EE is only in real danger on R2 and R3 and isn’t seriously threatened again until much later in the game when there are significant Allied troops in Karelia. If the Allied player has made the mistake of leaving me with 2 transports, I will send 2 infantry and 1 tank as long as I need to. But I can’t remember the last time my Allied opponent left me with two transports for more than a turn at the most (if at all).

@Yanny:

My first turn buy as Germany is always 8 Infantry 1 Transport (assuming I didn’t buy one with bid). Works well for me. I can get enough troops in Africa to hold it for a long time, or until Japan can help out. Keeps Germany in the game against Russia longer.

Exactly. This is always my first turn buy as well, and it is for about 90% of my opponents, too - and if the Allies haven’t destroyed both transports by turn 3 or 4, they are in trouble. ;)

You don’t buy the extra transport to shuttle 4 infantry a turn to Africa - you buy it because there is a very strong chance that you’re going to lose your first transport on G2 against a good Allied player, and sending two infantry to Africa is not enough!

I guess my main point is this: If your German opponent has the opportunity to send too many troops to Africa, then you as the Allied player have made a tactical mistake, and it is only the poor play of your opponent that is letting you off the hook.

[Xi]

Did we dissuade newb from his plan of “Just defend the estern front with all tanks and 4 inf from Germany?” I’d lovta be Russia just for R2 in that game! Well, that would be the end of the game, for all intents and porpoises. :P - Xi

[TG Moses VI]

Exactly. This is always my first turn buy as well, and it is for about 90% of my opponents, too - and if the Allies haven’t destroyed both transports by turn 3 or 4, they are in trouble.

Usually I purchase an extra sub, not a transport. Of course, I would also have to do this with a bid.

TG is closer to the mark - you should send 2 inf a turn as long as you can… which will only be 2 or 3 turns.

Thanks. :)