We should not attack Iraq

[Guest]

@TG:

I have no idea. But they would not have wasted a lot of precious ressources, which they could have used in the times of Glasnost and Perestoika to keep the country stable.

I doubt that Glasnost or Perestoika would’ve done much good. It seemed more like a empty promise and I doubt if the old Soviet Council would’ve followed through with it. I would much rather of had Stalinism fall now then let the people endure more suffering under despotism and exploitation.

Well, they have done “some good”, freedom on the cost of total social security. ANd from my point of view, it at least was a try to establish a “reformed communism”. The Soviet Council had no other choice IMHO than to follow it, or go into such an oppression that civil war would have been inevitable.

But, the will for changes is much higher when you are absolutely down, that is true.

lol that sounds like “life of brian”… i don’t think that the peoples liberation front will cooperate

Maybe… too early to tell. But Iraq turning from a dictatorship to a communist country [in the Middle East of all places] - that would really be something. 8)

I am extremely sure that GWB will not allow that !

[Guest]

Anyone here in trading cards?

Then have a look at:

http://yorick.infinitejest.org:81/1/cards.html

and for those who can’t take a joke: the real life doesn’t seem to be much better:

http://www.topps.com/Entertainment/Flashback/DesertStorm/desertstorm.html

(a link taken from the first site)

And for all of us strategists:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,786992,00.html

Falk

[Mr Ghoul]

@Yanny:

He’s had 12 years as warmongers are so quick to point out. 6 Months is a 1/24th of an increase in time. Is that going to make much of a difference?

Before you sign the death warrants of thousands of people, I’d think you might want to give it some thought.

He’s had 12 years, or whatever, to comply, so in the next 6 months everything will just fall together?

How much time should you crybaby liberals give him?

About your " oh the poor American flag burning Iraqis" stance, do you want a tissue?

[Yanny]

So every country that defies the UN we should attack? Well, Israel is screwed.

Going after Saddam is distracting us from the real war. The real war is to go after those people that brought down the World Trade Center. And Saddam may be a bad man, but he had no role in 9/11. It would be like Japan Bombing us during Pearl Harbor, so we retailiate against Mexico.

[EmuGod]

It would be more likes this: The Japanese attack America at Pearl Harbor, so America retaliates not only against Japan, but against Germany, Japan’s ally. Saddam is Al Qaeda’s ally.

[Yanny]

Give me one shred of proof Saddam even consorted with Al-Quaeda.

And we attacked Germany because they declared war on us ) Originally I believe (for 3 days at least) we were only going after Japan.

[Mr Ghoul]

@Yanny:

So every country that defies the UN we should attack? Well, Israel is screwed.

Going after Saddam is distracting us from the real war. The real war is to go after those people that brought down the World Trade Center. And Saddam may be a bad man, but he had no role in 9/11. It would be like Japan Bombing us during Pearl Harbor, so we retailiate against Mexico.

Its the fact that he’s defies the UN time and time and time and time and time again.
And he does pose a threat to the world, the US.
What more proof do you need?

Besides that, UN democracy is, in some cases, this being one of them, a farce.
Every country has its own politcal agendas.
Their decisions are not made on grounds of high morality and what’s in the best interest of the world.

How about Russia’s stance and refusal to countenace military action to halt Slobodan Milosevic’s ethnic cleansing of Kosovo?
They backed him to the bitter end.
Some people claim that NATO’s intervention there was illegal, since it lacked explicit UN endorsement.
Yet 19 of the world’s strongest democracies were surely right to act where the UN, divided, could not.

[Yanny]

Well, the reason I think Nato went into the Balkans is they were concerned about such a large region on their continent being destabilized.

[Mr Ghoul]

@Yanny:

Well, the reason I think Nato went into the Balkans is they were concerned about such a large region on their continent being destabilized.

Could be.

[TG Moses VI]

ANd from my point of view, it at least was a try to establish a “reformed communism”. The Soviet Council had no other choice IMHO than to follow it, or go into such an oppression that civil war would have been inevitable.

But, the will for changes is much higher when you are absolutely down, that is true.

I doubt that there could be “reformed communism” so late into the stages of Stalinism. Not impossible (probably a higher chance then after the October Revolution), but the USSR lacked the leaders such as Trotsky or Lenin and low morale of the disillusioned, disorganized people (“they pretend to pay us; we pretend to work”).

I am extremely sure that GWB will not allow that !

Then I guess the best bet is in the INC - but a communist can dream, can’t he? :)

Anyone here in trading cards?

Then have a look at:

http://yorick.infinitejest.org:81/1/cards.html

and for those who can’t take a joke: the real life doesn’t seem to be much better:

http://www.topps.com/Entertainment/Flashback/DesertStorm/desertstorm.html

Hahahaha, I still have a lot of those cards too. (The Tops ones, not the weird jokefest ones) 8)

Saddam may be a bad man, but he had no role in 9/11.

I wouldn’t be too sure about. The Czech prime minister (I think) and intelligence sources there placed a meeting between a Iraqi connection and Mohamed Atta, there is at least some evidence of a connection in Prague, 5 months five months before his monstrous attack.

Give me one shred of proof Saddam even consorted with Al-Quaeda.

Al-Qaeda refugees from the war in Afghanistan have found refuge in Iraq. Some of this relates to a group called Ansar al Islam (Partisans of Islam) which has taken over a small area near the Iranian border. Iraq is said by defectors to have links to the group, and Iraq, of course, could make contacts in order to encourage it to fight the Kurds.

Rafed Fatah and a senior al-Qaeda operative captured in Morocco, Abu Zubair (known as The Bear), underwent training in Iraq.

There are also claims of terrorist training grounds in Iraq.

[cystic crypt]

@Mr:

@Yanny:

He’s had 12 years as warmongers are so quick to point out. 6 Months is a 1/24th of an increase in time. Is that going to make much of a difference?

Before you sign the death warrants of thousands of people, I’d think you might want to give it some thought.

He’s had 12 years, or whatever, to comply, so in the next 6 months everything will just fall together?

How much time should you crybaby liberals give him?

About your " oh the poor American flag burning Iraqis" stance, do you want a tissue?

with regards to the 12 years thing, i’d understood that weapons inspectors were in Iraq for 8 years, and hadn’t dug up anything. Which brings up a difficult point - how do they prove that something doesn’t exist? Should Iraq have to put up with these (what any other nation might consider spies) inspectors forever because they can not prove that Iraq does not have weapons?
I have little sympathy for the Iraqi war-mongers, but rather than many Iraqi’s who simply want to have jobs, have families and not blow up Americans. At the same time i’d really like to see the international community prevent the second from becoming the first. People who blow up Americans suck, and it would be really good if there were fewer of them. (this argument is starting to disintegrate - too much beer and bad football and late nights and riotous living, so i’m going to bed.)

[TG Moses VI]

with regards to the 12 years thing, i’d understood that weapons inspectors were in Iraq for 8 years, and hadn’t dug up anything.

Uhhh… no. The weapons inspectors found a whole lot of Saddam’s arsenal. That’s the main reason why he wanted them out.

[Field Marshal]

The limited inspection deal is ludicrous. Even inspectors with full, unlimited access to Iraqi installations, I doubt they’ll be lifting to see what’s under every rug. Hell, he could hide the majority of his arsenal out in desert bunkers and nobody would find it. This doesn’t mean I’m all with an invasion either, but the difficulties are there…

[Guest]

@Mr:

About your " oh the poor American flag burning Iraqis" stance, do you want a tissue?

ahem, did i tell you about the guy from close to my hometown to produces easy-burning flags?
The US and Israel are the main products….

[TG Moses VI]

Ha, foolish guy. Nothing is to be obtained from burning flags.

[cystic crypt]

. . . unless it’s REALLY really cold out, and you want to both make a statement and keep your little tootsies warm.

[TG Moses VI]

Statements like those I find baseless. It would be the same as I going into a factory and shouting, “Workers unite!” without giving any sufficent reason or actively participating.

[Jazz]

“Secret US-Iran Understanding Co-opting Iran to US Military Front Against Baghdad Iran Joins Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Kuwait, Bahrain in Broadening Pro-American Muslim-Arab War Alliance”

Questions or comments?

information obtained from http://www.debka.com/

[Guest]

@TG:

Ha, foolish guy. Nothing is to be obtained from burning flags.

Well, he makes quite some bucks with that :)

[Guest]

@Jazz:

Questions or comments?

information obtained from http://www.debka.com/

Well, looking at this site is comment enough.
I don’t think that anyone here could assume they are not biased towards Israel.