Joe gets Germany, which means Charles gets the U.S.
Axis:
Joe = Germany
Ty = Japan
Allies:
Brett = UK
Charles = US
Chris’ friend = Russia
Are you proud of your country ?
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@Deviant:Scripter:
LOL, yea. I’m just playin’ with ya, eh? :wink:
i thought so. Most people on this forum seemed quite intelligent and more “enlightened” than most, so i was a little stunned at first.
Oh, and btw - we really do not criticize the US very often (not enough, i think) which is why the US wanted us on the G7 (formerly G6, now G8), but rather we tend to support the US in many respects, particularly in military op’s, humanitarian aid (see 9/11), etc.
and also, appropriate use of the term “eh” - most non-Canadians do not use that term appropriately and it makes us sound even stupider :D -
Ok, Ok. I’m sorry. I’ll have to quit generalizing about Canada now, I can see that now everyone up there is like the one’s I’ve met. Please accept my apologies. :D
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Eh? What are you talking about crypt?
What good did American ever do Eh?
They just drop alot of bombs Eh?
And And they have dumb beer Eh!
Eh? -
Eh Vs Ya’LL :wink:
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@CC:
and also, appropriate use of the term “eh” - most non-Canadians do not use that term appropriately and it makes us sound even stupider
Hey, hey, hey… let’s not jump to conclusions shall we? I use “eh” all the time as a sign of brotherhood. Eh, comrades? Eh?
If you want to play that kind of game i can too find lot of horrible thing from the Catholic and the American, but you and i (anyway I) know this would be pointless. Also error from the past does not mean we are still like we were, making errors is part of evolution.
Agreed. (YB does not represent all Americans! [well… not Californians at least :)])
@CC:
I thought so. Most people on this forum seemed quite intelligent and more “enlightened” than most, so i was a little stunned at first.
Intelligent maybe, but “enlightened?” I’m not too sure about that (points to myself and TM :roll: ).
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I think we can all take pride in our countries outside of the political motivations of our ruling administrations. I don’t really fit into one of the categories in the poll, either. I’m proud of the good the people of the US can do, fully knowing the bad the goes with it. 9/11 showed how Americans can pull together in a moment of crisis, we can take pride in that…
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A) Yes, i am proud, it’s better than any country of the world
B) Yes, i am proud …. well, it’s the only one i know
C) No, I can’t be proud of something which i inherited.
D) No, i am not proud. There are too many things that suck in my country
E) pride is surely one of the 7 cardinal sins… therefor i can’t be proud … (this is not eligible for non-US citizens :) )First this subject is very hard to explain because I’m proud to be a Yankee, a Confederate, a nationalist, and a sectionalist all at the same time (contradiction?). You really have to talk to me in person before you can understand what I am trying to say. That given: Let me use my process of elimination here.
E) Is invalid because I’m not Catholic (though I still believe in a “lot” of the Cardinal Sins)
D) Maybe. There are a lot of problems with America today and in our history. However, there’s a lot of good, too. When weighing the scales, I think America’s strengths outweighs its faults.
A) Maybe. I like to believe so, but I haven’t been to every other country to give an honest, unbiased answer. I’ll tell you what, there are places I wouldn’t mind to live in. That says a lot coming from me.
C) Is invalid because I worked hard to contribute, discover, and learn what makes my country so great. I do not simply consider someone born in America to be “American.” There’s so much more than that. That being said, I feel that I have sufficiently completed those obligations as representative of my country and why I know I can be prideful of.
B) Maybe. I would accept this answer because I am proud. However, it’s [my country] not the only one I know.Final Answer: B. It may be worded incorrectly for my taste, but I feel it’s what suits my opinion best.
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yb…… thanks a lot … :)
Note I’m not saying America is perfect, but at least we, unlike Europe, (especially France) did not screw up Africa. the Middle East, South America, most of Asia, and if you don’t like the U.S., North America.
I suppose you’d like to be speaking Russian Falk?
Well, i would be talking german still. Read your history books, and have a few thoughts here and then…. i would be talking german, for two reasons.
if you can’t think of them, feel free to ask.Europeans have done way more damage than the U.S., even if you only take the 20th century. Who produced Hitler and Stalin? Who screwed up Africa so bad it is still hurting? Both world wars? Going back a little bit, Who was responsible for 99% of the slaves from West Africa? The French Revolution? THe Napoleonic Wars? Thousands of years of persecution of the Jews? Creating the problems in the middle east. The crusades for goodness sake.
I love the crusades and the antisemitism…. that’s why we exprted all the religious nutcases to the new world, where they had nothing else to do but found a bunch of states for themselves, slaughtering natives in a way that is really interesting.
Yes, we europeans have done a lot of mistakes, but we have learnt something from that. There is no need for you to repeat our mistakes. Just listen every now and then, what others have to say.
You are 15, right? Wait some 10 years, and then you will understand what i say.
You are in your puberty, and probably you hate to take advice from “older” ppl (brothers, sisters, parents, teachers, etc). You probably hate it even more when you have to admit that they were right here and there.
Now: The US is dominating the world for nearly 60 years now. Europe dominated a long time before that. We have done our mistakes. We can see them. You are repeating not each and every, but most of them.
There is no need to repeat them, if you listen to “your older brother” and then think!I didn’t mean that Europe’s indiscretions made me feel good to be an American, simply that I think it is hypocritical of Europe to talk about how bad America is. And that is the thought process behind starting this thread.
THIS IS THE ARROGANCE I AM ALWAYS TALKING OF !
HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT MY IDEA WAS?
In fact, i was only intersted in what the ppl might think here, knowing there are a lot of Canadians and USies here… wondering what the Canadians would say, and wether the USies would (once more) follow my internal prediction/prejudice…
You again over-did my expectations. I really thought that the USies here would have slowly learnt the following:Saying " Hey, the US is maybe not the best" (and my poll here is not even saying that, that is a wrong interpretation by you) … is not the biggest insult that is possible. If you feel so, then you are a nationalist and hypocrit, both in the worst possible sense.
Think of that.
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@TG:
First this subject is very hard to explain because I’m proud to be a Yankee, a Confederate, a nationalist, and a sectionalist all at the same time (contradiction?). You really have to talk to me in person before you can understand what I am trying to say.
Thank you.
I think i know what you mean, as i am a human being first, then a european and a north german (these two are equally important for me) and then after quite some time a german.I am glad that statistics don’t lie and there are smart USies out there ;) :) ….
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@F_alk:
I love the crusades and the antisemitism…. that’s why we exprted all the religious nutcases to the new world, where they had nothing else to do but found a bunch of states for themselves, slaughtering natives in a way that is really interesting.
Yes, we europeans have done a lot of mistakes, but we have learnt something from that. There is no need for you to repeat our mistakes. Just listen every now and then, what others have to say.
I hardly doubt that listening to the European’s would get us anywhere at all. Are you just trying to get a voice in somewhere, because you know that Europe doesn’t hold any real power anymore? Seems to me that you should be asking US for OUR advice. After all, wasn’t it us who saved Europe’s a.s.s in World War II? If it weren’t for the US, Europe would all be speaking German right now. Don’t be so arrogant as to assume that you have the answers to everything.
@F_alk:
You are in your puberty, and probably you hate to take advice from “older” ppl (brothers, sisters, parents, teachers, etc). You probably hate it even more when you have to admit that they were right here and there.
No need to be mean.
@F_alk:
Now: The US is dominating the world for nearly 60 years now. Europe dominated a long time before that. We have done our mistakes. We can see them. You are repeating not each and every, but most of them. There is no need to repeat them, if you listen to “your older brother” and then think!
What mistakes are we repeating? Back up this awfully crappy statement.
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@Deviant:Scripter:
I hardly doubt that listening to the European’s would get us anywhere at all. Are you just trying to get a voice in somewhere, because you know that Europe doesn’t hold any real power anymore? Seems to me that you should be asking US for OUR advice. After all, wasn’t it us who saved Europe’s a.s.s in World War II? If it weren’t for the US, Europe would all be speaking German right now. Don’t be so arrogant as to assume that you have the answers to everything.
Uggg. I love (read:hate) when i see/hear and American say “we saved your asses in WWII”. America wouldn’t even have been in WWII if Germany hadn’t declared war on it, and it took them 3 YEARS to finally send in the cavalry while Canada, Britain, Russia, and the free (non-neutral) countries in Europe lost many thousands of souls.
This is just another reason why Europeans (and us) have little regard for Americans (and foreign policy) at times - this attitude that what’s good for US is good for the US and screw the rest of the world.
America was too immature to join WWII early enough b/c of the movement of the America-firsters, as well as the pro-Germany elements (Kennedy’s et al.) - why should they be involved in a war in Europe, after all? It took a declaration of war against the US before they finally gave more than token assistance to the Allies.
Canada may be younger than the US, but i think that it too is more mature in its thinking with regards to the rest of the world than the US. Compare to a person - as a child is raised - they are the center of attention. When they become an adult then they focus their attention elsewhere - on family etc, and look less to their own needs than too others. The US is still in this inward-looking phase (certainly she is generous to a point, however there is generally an obvious agenda that attends this generosity). -
The US is still in this inward-looking
I agree !
And BTW; we are not as strong as the USA (from an economical point of view), but the EU is still strong.
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I like Americans.
I like American bravado( I like saying that…bravado, bravado)
The US was contributing all kinds of resoures to the war right from the start. There were plenty of American volunteers to fight in Europe.
Did the US save everyones ass?
I don’t know for sure, but it didn’t hurt to have them involved.If they didn’t join, Germany would have probably fought Russia to a stand
still. Russia was on the offensive big time by Dec 7/42.\For sure, the state that Europe would have been in if America didn’t get involved would be much different than today.
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Quotes by CC
America wouldn’t even have been in WWII if Germany hadn’t declared war on it
Yes… leave it to the Germans to Pearl Harbor us before we get involved in WWII. Good one.
and it took them 3 YEARS to finally send in the cavalry while Canada, Britain, Russia, and the free (non-neutral) countries in Europe lost many thousands of souls.
Your recollection of the timeline of World War II in the Atlantic Theater is very poor. What about North Africa, what about Sicily, what about Italy, what about the 8th Air Force, what about the US Navy and Merchant Marine? Food for thought, we would’ve come to France’s aid sooner if we were not “held-back” by the British who feared (like in WWI), we would suffer too many losses if we D-Day’ed too early having not sufficiently prepared for it.
US [gave] token assistance to the Allies.
You’re right. So why should US even bother at all? If the thanks we get is “token” assistance, why bother? Why throw away so many American lives in vain? Why send millions of Americans troops to fight in a foreign battlefield if it counts as merely “token assistance.” Why supply the Allies with billions of dollars in war material? I’m very disappointed in you.
The US is still in this inward-looking phase (certainly she is generous to a point, however there is generally an obvious agenda that attends this generosity).
Almost every country in the world is “inward” looking by these standards. Quite sad really, but that’s the way the world has been.
America was too immature to join WWII early enough b/c of the movement of the America-firsters, as well as the pro-Germany elements (Kennedy’s et al.) - why should they be involved in a war in Europe, after all?
Yes, moral of the story: jump in the moment a war breaks out. Good one. “American-firsters?” Yes, American first when it comes to cash-and-carry, lend-lease, destroyers for bases, merchant shipping in active war zones, and embargos, right? Good one.
Quote by Mr Ghoul
Did the US save everyones ass?
Maybe. The Pacific certainly, but the Atlantic? Chances are that Russian might’ve gone on to defeat German with or without our help.
I like Americans.
I like American bravado( I like saying that…bravado, bravado)
Thank you, though I don’t understand exactly what you mean by “American bravado?”
Quote by F_alk
Thank you.
I think i know what you mean, as i am a human being first, then a european and a north german (these two are equally important for me) and then after quite some time a german.I am glad that statistics don’t lie and there are smart USies out there ….
Thanks a lot :), though I don’t know if I consider myself a North American first before an American [United States]
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“Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?”
- John Bellushi from Animal House
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@TG:
Quotes by CC
America wouldn’t even have been in WWII if Germany hadn’t declared war on it
Yes… leave it to the Germans to Pearl Harbor us before we get involved in WWII. Good one.
Come on Moses, i’m not that ignorant. British intelligence “leaked” documents to the Germans suggesting that America would be declaring war on Germany. Hitler declared war on America pre-emptively. I believe that Pearl Harbour was unrelated.
and it took them 3 YEARS to finally send in the cavalry while Canada, Britain, Russia, and the free (non-neutral) countries in Europe lost many thousands of souls.
Your recollection of the timeline of World War II in the Atlantic Theater is very poor. What about North Africa, what about Sicily, what about Italy, what about the 8th Air Force, what about the US Navy and Merchant Marine? Food for thought, we would’ve come to France’s aid sooner if we were not “held-back” by the British who feared (like in WWI), we would suffer too many losses if we D-Day’ed too early having not sufficiently prepared for it.
I would have to check on that. At the same time, America was quite hesitent to enter WWII, and would not have landed in France earlier than 1942.
US [gave] token assistance to the Allies.
You’re right. So why should US even bother at all? If the thanks we get is “token” assistance, why bother? Why throw away so many American lives in vain? Why send millions of Americans troops to fight in a foreign battlefield if it counts as merely “token assistance.” Why supply the Allies with billions of dollars in war material? I’m very disappointed in you.
ouch. You hurt me when you say that Moses. The fact is the world is getting smaller. This begs the question - what kind of Europe would the US have preferred dealing with - a Jewless/Slavic-less etc. dictatorship governed by a crazed lunatic? Or Hitler’s Germany . . . ( :) )
The US is still in this inward-looking phase (certainly she is generous to a point, however there is generally an obvious agenda that attends this generosity).
Almost every country in the world is “inward” looking by these standards. Quite sad really, but that’s the way the world has been.
Fair enough. Much of the developed world is perhaps not so obvious about it - perhaps America’s wealth and power exaggerate this phenomenon.
America was too immature to join WWII early enough b/c of the movement of the America-firsters, as well as the pro-Germany elements (Kennedy’s et al.) - why should they be involved in a war in Europe, after all?
Yes, moral of the story: jump in the moment a war breaks out. Good one. “American-firsters?” Yes, American first when it comes to cash-and-carry, lend-lease, destroyers for bases, merchant shipping in active war zones, and embargos, right? Good one.
Well, as i said, there was some token assistance given early on, but only as much as Roosevelt felt was politically feasible. Too many Americans did not want to be involved, and both German elements (the 5th column) and the “American-Firsters” were quite active in delaying the American foray into the war.
This is not to say that America does not/did not contribute to WWII, but rather to indicate my feeling that the boast that “America saved Europe’s ass in WWII” is inappropriate. Moses, you know that i’m prolly (aside from Ghoul) one of the more “pro-American” non-Americans out here from other forums.
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Why is there so much arrogance when it comes to the European view of looking back on World War II? Maybe this is one possibility for the reason that America is so hesitant to get involved with foreign affairs of this nature. Seems to me like all we get is a bunch of crap regardless of what decision we make.
Europeans need to accept that fact that actually “needed help” and they were lucky that America came to their aid.
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My deviant friend forgets about the massive population and industrial capacity of the Soviet Union during the war. Another product of feelings of western superiority and the cold war; the only reason the Russians where able to do so well against the Germans was becuase they had superior numbers and got rather lucky, right? Yet another reason to distrust western historians (although they seem to be getting better).
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My deviant friend forgets about the massive population and industrial capacity of the Soviet Union during the war. Another product of feelings of western superiority and the cold war; the only reason the Russians where able to do so well against the Germans was becuase they had superior numbers and got rather lucky, right? Yet another reason to distrust western historians (although they seem to be getting better).
Actually No, I didn’t forget about anything. The Russians’ were superior soldiers’ when it came to adapting to the weather conditions, something the overconfident German’s could not handle.
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I’ve read that the Russians killed 80-90% of German forces. Indeed this may belong under the “communism does not work” thread as communist ideals contributed greatly to the Russian war machine - a populace devoted to the strength of the soviet union worked well - both in the factories and in the trenches - some might credit communism with Russia’s successes against Germany (not only the cold weather and thinned resources . . . ).
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