@seththenewb:
Japan won’t commit their planes past the point of no return till turn 3-4 if not later. If US builds nothing in the pacific, what’s to stop Japan from recalling those planes and going crazy in the pacific? Even with their planes gone, the Japanese navy is still powerful enough to bully the Anzacs and UK Pac without a strong American presence to help contain Japanese expansion. In that scenario, Japan will start to become a power big enough to still get a pacific victory with a lot of their air gone. If nothing else, the US needs at least some Pacific purchases to keep Japan honest. You don’t have to commit to a full kill japan strat.
If the Brits pull out of the med, it’ll be too late for the allies to win. Italy will get Egy for the axis last VC and Germany will get every USSR VC. Italy will be cash rich enough that they’ll be able to deter allied expansion into the med for awhile, especially with 20 japanese air units poised to wreck/strafe any allied fleet sailing past sz91 for Italy to finish off. Italy will have more than enough to cover Germany’s western beaches while the majority of the German army is pushing towards Moscow and victory. Eventually the allies will be able to land in large force in Europe or force their way into the med. By that time Germany can send mech/tanks through the middle east to reinforce Egy and they’ll have 100+ cash to spend because Moscow just fell.
Show me the build where Italy takes Egypt before I4, and what it has remaining.
Assume Egypt gets the Ftr/Tac from Malta and the CV in the Med, the Inf and AA from Malta.
On UK2 gets Egypt reinforced with 2 Inf from Persia and 1 Ftr/Tac from India.
*Edit - and Italy loses it TT and DD from SZ96 on UK1
How about I play you and show you that way?
@seththenewb:
Japan won’t commit their planes past the point of no return till turn 3-4 if not later. If US builds nothing in the pacific, what’s to stop Japan from recalling those planes and going crazy in the pacific? Even with their planes gone, the Japanese navy is still powerful enough to bully the Anzacs and UK Pac without a strong American presence to help contain Japanese expansion. In that scenario, Japan will start to become a power big enough to still get a pacific victory with a lot of their air gone. If nothing else, the US needs at least some Pacific purchases to keep Japan honest. You don’t have to commit to a full kill japan strat.
If the Brits pull out of the med, it’ll be too late for the allies to win. Italy will get Egy for the axis last VC and Germany will get every USSR VC. Italy will be cash rich enough that they’ll be able to deter allied expansion into the med for awhile, especially with 20 japanese air units poised to wreck/strafe any allied fleet sailing past sz91 for Italy to finish off. Italy will have more than enough to cover Germany’s western beaches while the majority of the German army is pushing towards Moscow and victory. Eventually the allies will be able to land in large force in Europe or force their way into the med. By that time Germany can send mech/tanks through the middle east to reinforce Egy and they’ll have 100+ cash to spend because Moscow just fell.
Show me the build where Italy takes Egypt before I4, and what it has remaining. Â
Assume Egypt gets the Ftr/Tac from Malta and the CV in the Med, the Inf and AA from Malta. Â
On UK2 gets Egypt reinforced with 2 Inf from Persia and 1 Ftr/Tac from India.
*Edit - and Italy loses it TT and DD from SZ96 on UK1
Malta gets a tac?!?! LOLWUT? Doesn’t it get inf/AA/fgt?
And given Sealion, it’s possible. Actually likely.
Summary:
UK1
Send DD (SZ98), 1 Ftr (Malta), 1 Tac (off CV in SZ98) to SZ96. Lose DD, land Ftr/Tac on Egypt.
NCM CV, CR from SZ98 to SZ72
NCM TT from SZ98 to SZ96, pick up Inf + AA, move to SZ81. Unload on Egypt.
NCM TT from India to SZ80 - pick up inf from W.India and drop in Persia - Place 2 Inf on Persia.
NCM 1 Ftr 1 Tac from India to SZ72, land on CV.
NCM Alexandria units to Egypt.
UK2
NCM TT from Persia to Egypt, drop off 2 Inf
NCM Ftr/Tac off CV to Egypt.
Thats how you get the units there that I posted earlier about. Egypt is +3 Inf, 1 AA, 2 Ftr, 2 Tac from its starting units.
this is standard j1 and j2. what happened in europe is kinda funny, germany lost a 99% chance to win battle and UK lost an 82% … good times… but ignore that.
Should be able to get pinoy + 2 islands +1 more island and malaya without losing a transport or a fleet. kamikaze protects the pinoy fleet so you can be light there. 42 blocks subs. air shouldn’t reach borneo unless UK PAC bought a bomber…
you can also setup for calcutta round 3 or 4 if allies can’t block you and you can get all your boats to drop on it with all your air going in… (you have to be able to hold yunnan so your air has a place to land… the naval setup is easy take what you can protect that is in range of india… not hard).
the problem with the whole caroline island big stack thing is… you can already do pearl harbor round 1 without a counter attack occuring… so you put that off for round 2… those same units are with anzac, with a bship added a dd and cruiser added plus the pinoy dd sub… and you have the exact same attack to do, but with so much more stuff added in… that you may as well have gone to war round 1.
True, but from Carolines you can threaten much more territory.
In addition, your transports wil be in much better position - and greater numbers - than in J1.
nah you want your boats down by FIC and kwangtung. 1 boat on caroline. so you can grab cash islands round 2 japan.
3 starting boats = 3 islands. boats you buy reach pinoy for 1 more island.
caroline is just out of position. sometimes you can do calcutta 3-4 if allies aren’t conservative so you have to take advantage. putting stuff in caroline allows allies to do more because your force is spread out a bit more. can’t get every air piece on burma for example etc etc.
you want allies to be conservative. you have to maintain your fame and take advantage of having overkill for whatever you do. single out china single out calcutta etc etc.
~
game is won or lost for japan in calcutta. you can’t win pacific without it (unless you had a blow out and took hawaii and anzac… it can happen if usa does something stupid).
You give up a lot of positioning to the allies. Without a stack in carolines + build in japan, us will stage in hawaii. This means they’re one turn closer to the Anzac and oftentimes they can grab carolines right off the bat if your fleet is in sz36. I might change my tune a little bit if you’re buying a NB on say hainan, but I’m still opposed to staging all your fleet there. Some of it? Yes, definitely. But all of it? Nah, not so much unless india is wide open and is worth losing positioning for.
The longer you can keep the USN out of sz33 & sz26 the better. A USN fleet stage off of WUS isn’t going to do the allies much good. Keep them separated from linking with the anzacs. Now you can kill whatever reins US sent the anzacs way US1 + the anzac fleet in piecemeal and put a dent in the allied boats in the water before they link up. Or at the least you can worry the allies that that’s what you’ll do.
@Vance:
An airbase in Suiyuyan puts 20ish air units in German occupied Novgorod as early as turn 4 (seriously look at the map!).
LOL!
Either way it is obvious you people aren’t winning games in pacific, because you are not playing the game.
~
Caroline stack just makes usa block you with destroyers from sinking his fleet, except your naval will not reach malaya or sumatra (you can have a small fleet get there).
~
The main reason why you are a complete idiot is 8 fighters 5 tacticals and 2 bombers has only 70% odds on burma. (assume sz 38 picks up malaya and uses that to take an island and moves everything up to burma). also avg 3-4 units left.
add the 6 air from caroline we are looking at 99.999% odds with 12-13 units left. calcutta after that will be cake, because sending 6 extra air in the mix will end up killing the units faster so you don’t take so many losses (you end up with 3-4 extra survivors).
also if he moves out to burma, he has to block your transports from dropping burma.
But if you are going to give me 30% chance to hold burma as allies… I’ll take it.
as japan you have clear cut objectives in terms of vcs, sinking USA is not going to happen, he’ll always block you with a dd or something if he has to.
you should focus on making more money, because you start the game making less than what china+uspac+anzac make. money is an issue. you risk running out of steam not capitalizing on islands and asia. the americans are a sideshow till round 4-7 when they can actually make a decent attempt at sinking you… (I only buy transports and 1 artillery round 1, round 2 I buy airbase and couple minors, japan only needs 3 inf and the 3 aa gun and maybe a fighter to hold).
J3 is when I start considering naval purchases
@Cow:
as japan you have clear cut objectives in terms of vcs, sinking USA is not going to happen, he’ll always block you with a dd or something if he has to.
Not before DOW. J2 I always build a carrier. That makes 3 up at Pearl Harbor, plus support. That’s tough for USA to handle.
it doesn’t matter i stay in hawaii no matter what.you can only get air on it and even if you get enough usa has a decent counter attack.
you give up so much in terms of money you could gain off dutch islands by buying naval round 1.
not to mention usa generally brings ships, uk pac is what gets men and if you delay taking the isles from UK pac… then you are just asking for a rough time in mainland asia.
plus if you are buying a carrier on J1. that is 8 air units that cannot hit burma or a chinese stack on szech. 9 inf plus 1 fighter with 8 air pieces… typically gonna get 5 air units killed should you choose to hit it. (the chinese fighter loss is also not a huge issue for china, because after that it moves in one giant lump stack… also uk pac can push for money with less panda express threat on calcutta/burma
~
generally speaking japan starts to lose when it fights usa naval before round 4 (aside from blockers).
I recommend playing a tighter game, especially for people new to pacific. Set yourself up for J2 war, in all honesty all you need is a transport couple carrier some of your starting subs and dd in caroline if you want him to sit in hawaii.
then you move on regardless on what usa does. you get the islands, you need to make cash before you can start to worry about sinking america. USA will gladly get sunk knowing that he’s being bait so china/USpac can merge, which is Japan’s worst nightmare.
~
you are fighting four countries. the least important is USA, because fighting him is not profitable. his naval is the strongest, but he is also the first to act after your turn ends. so you shouldn’t be losing transports round 1. Japan is easy to play once you understand where the money is and how to get it.
~
When playing japan this is all you need to know:
GET THE MONEY AND MAINTAIN THE FAME.
When all your naval and all your air is in one spot, nothing can come close to you. all that cheddar is on those dutch/spice islands. you don’t need much in terms of inf to kill china… you get enough starting ground forces to do it, because your attacks come in 3 and 4 rolls and his attack come in 1s only with a single 3.
calcutta is also much easier the sooner you cut into his income and so is the entire game, you want to cut india to 6-7 ipc sooner than later, it makes taking him over easier or simply just containing him for the remainder of the game.
@Cow:
it doesn’t matter i stay in hawaii no matter what.you can only get air on it and even if you get enough usa has a decent counter attack.
you give up so much in terms of money you could gain off dutch islands by buying naval round 1.
not to mention usa generally brings ships, uk pac is what gets men and if you delay taking the isles from UK pac… then you are just asking for a rough time in mainland asia.
plus if you are buying a carrier on J1. that is 8 air units that cannot hit burma or a chinese stack on szech. 9 inf plus 1 fighter with 8 air pieces… typically gonna get 5 air units killed should you choose to hit it. (the chinese fighter loss is also not a huge issue for china, because after that it moves in one giant lump stack… also uk pac can push for money with less panda express threat on calcutta/burma
~
generally speaking japan starts to lose when it fights usa naval before round 4 (aside from blockers).
I said J2 carrier, J3 DOW
Why would anyone ever wait till japan 3 to declare war? I need a feasible scenario that would make japan want to do this. I can see waiting for J2, being a more conservative player and also allowing germany a little breathing room.
J3 is just too much advantage for the allies in the pacific, J2 is the round you want to go, because allies generally pick up a few dutch islands… you can’t let them have that, too much infs for india is no good that one.
@Cow:
Why would anyone ever wait till japan 3 to declare war? I need a feasible scenario that would make japan want to do this. I can see waiting for J2, being a more conservative player and also allowing germany a little breathing room.
J3 is just too much advantage for the allies in the pacific, J2 is the round you want to go, because allies generally pick up a few dutch islands… you can’t let them have that, too much infs for india is no good that one.
Which version?
To give Germany/Italy the best breathing room possible while retaining your offensive options in the Pacific.
That’s the best reason.
And the amount the US is investing in the Pacific does influence your strategic choices, including DoW turn.
Does it matter if Japan wins or if Germany/Italy wins for the Axis?
Answer: No.
Does Japan attacking early put the Germans and Italians at a disadvantage early?
Answer: Yes
Is the US going to spend more IPC on Europe if it can DOW on US1?
Answer: Not likely if Japan is already collecting 30+ IPC, poised to make it 45+ by the end of J2, Calcutta is still facing annihilation, and the Allies are crippled in the Pacific. In fact, I think the exact opposite will happen for the Axis in Europe. The US can be so over-invested in the Pacific that it actually HELPS the Axis in Europe.
As the early US purchased vouched by many people on these boards is Pacific, Pacific, Pacific - why would Japan wait to get the money to face a fleet that matches the Japanese fleet but without the income it could have had. I think that is Cows’ point.
Besides, playing turtle for Japan until J3 is an economic failure as the Allied economy gets to be 2.5 times as large as Japan’s in the Pacific. You might as well just attack Russia on J1 and march to Moscow as Japan every game because you sure aren’t winning the game in the Pacific.
