Don’t forget the carriers in z102.
If you think Germany is going Sealion 3bomber and an AC is a very good buy as USA. The mobility of the units can be used both on Germany and on Japan (should Germany deside not to buy trannies)
USA bombers cannot reach SZ110 (USA 4) and land anywhere but london (germany controlled)
USA bombers must take off from either Greenland or E USA on USA4
So i do not understand how USA bombers can kill Germany transports
You could land bombers in eire on USA4 but then either germany kills them (most likely) on its turn 5 or if anything after G5 their transports have moved into the baltic (SZ 114)
And i dont see any reason why Germany would attack from any other position other than SZ110 on G4
There’s either something i am completely not seeing, or your USA bombers kill G TTs is completely flawed
The only other logical way USA could sink the German TTs is a fighter/tac bomber carrier mass in SZ 102 on USA3. Then on USA 4 these air units could attack the german fleet in SZ 110 and be picked up by the carriers if they survive. But again remember you have to kill a destroyer (very possibly 2 destroyers) a cruiser a battlehip an aircraft carrier and 2 fighers to kill any TTs. Thats a tall order for fighters and tacs but it is doable i guess
@Uncrustable:
The only other logical way USA could sink the German TTs is a fighter/tac bomber carrier mass in SZ 102 on USA3. Then on USA 4 these air units could attack the german fleet in SZ 110 and be picked up by the carriers if they survive. But again remember you have to kill a destroyer (very possibly 2 destroyers) a cruiser a battlehip an aircraft carrier and 2 fighers to kill any TTs. Thats a tall order for fighters and tacs but it is doable i guess
You could have 5 carriers in SZ102 with 9 fighters and 1 tac bomber at the end of USA 3. Then on USA 4 these air units would crush the german fleet in SZ110 and kill all the TTs. If you only got 4 carriers with 7 fighters and one tac then it is almost a 50/50 fight (actualy in favor of the axis) and will be up to the dice to determine the winner
But honestly germany is not going to go through with sealion if USA commits to this (can use the TTs to crush Novgorod instead), and Japan is most likely going to own the pacific, so this is not a very practical strategy
Eastern US has an airbase, so bombers from there can hit 110 and land in Eireland, Scotland, or Norway. Also, USA is allowed to put ships in z102 including carriers with planes that can reach z110 and land in z104. Uncrustable, please look closely at what happens if UK activates Eire on round 1 with the mech, and then on round 2 puts 3 fighters, a bomber, an AA and a couple infantry in Scotland. You may take London with fewer losses but in another sense all of your land units will be lost because you will never get them back off the island. There is absolutely no way that you can take Eireland and Scotland, and still have enough air units left over to take London. You need to divert air units to protect any ships that go into z119 from possible scramble, and you also need to divert enough units to take Scotland in case they do not scramble. Good luck with that.
One remedy might be for Germany to put itself even further into bankruptcy by building carriers out of the Normandy IC to protect the fleet. Meanwhile the American player calls off the airstrike and the Soviet player laughs at you because now you are at war and for the first 3 rounds of the game you have not built a single land unit! The final insult is that if Germany did not take Scotland, those British planes will fly up to Novgorod and a few turns later you may well see 3 RAF fighters sitting proudly on top of the Soviet infantry stack in Berlin.
Z110 where can US land?
Norway,Denmark (if soviet build a tranny turn 3), Scotland, Eire or London
If germany is to attack the soviet tranny with 4 planes round 3 Sealion is over and Russia is free to attack a round earlier.
And if you dont take london bombers will come either way just to sink the trannies! Then they will fly back to fight Japan :-P
@Uncrustable:
USA bombers cannot reach SZ110 (USA 4) and land anywhere but london (germany controlled)
USA bombers must take off from either Greenland or E USA on USA4So i do not understand how USA bombers can kill Germany transports
You could land bombers in eire on USA4 but then either germany kills them (most likely) on its turn 5 or if anything after G5 their transports have moved into the baltic (SZ 114)And i dont see any reason why Germany would attack from any other position other than SZ110 on G4
There’s either something i am completely not seeing, or your USA bombers kill G TTs is completely flawed
EUSA to SZ101: 1
SZ101 to SZ102: 2
SZ102 to SZ103: 3
SZ103 to SZ104: 4
SZ104 to SZ110: 5
SZ110 to SZ109: 6
SZ109 to Eire/Scotland/London: 7
EUSA has an AB, Bombers can move 6 + 1 from EUSA = 7
There you go sir.
I’m a happy Allied player if Germany spent 70 IPC on Trn and then decides not to Sealion UK. If you waited 4 rounds before you attack Russia, I think Germany is WAY behind the curve - regardless of the US purchase.
Besides, Germany can still buy 3 DD to put in Normandy and an AB in Holland to add scramblers before G4, but everything Germany spends that becomes reactive before its plan is fully hatched is a win for the Allies.
@Uncrustable:
But honestly germany is not going to go through with sealion if USA commits to this (can use the TTs to crush Novgorod instead), and Japan is most likely going to own the pacific, so this is not a very practical strategy
I thought you said you could take London? If you call it off you don’t take London. Bombers built in Eastern US can be in Hawaii on USA2 if Germany does not build the transports. Bombers can kill Japanese ships.
Nothing is more fun to do this to ppl in real life. They go from the top of the world (thinking they have won), to the bottom of deep depresion (when they figure out that they have actually plaid right into a trap) Â :evil:
@Uncrustable:
@Uncrustable:
The only other logical way USA could sink the German TTs is a fighter/tac bomber carrier mass in SZ 102 on USA3. Then on USA 4 these air units could attack the german fleet in SZ 110 and be picked up by the carriers if they survive. But again remember you have to kill a destroyer (very possibly 2 destroyers) a cruiser a battlehip an aircraft carrier and 2 fighers to kill any TTs. Thats a tall order for fighters and tacs but it is doable i guess
You could have 5 carriers in SZ102 with 9 fighters and 1 tac bomber at the end of USA 3. Then on USA 4 these air units would crush the german fleet in SZ110 and kill all the TTs. If you only got 4 carriers with 7 fighters and one tac then it is almost a 50/50 fight (actualy in favor of the axis) and will be up to the dice to determine the winner
But honestly germany is not going to go through with sealion if USA commits to this (can use the TTs to crush Novgorod instead), and Japan is most likely going to own the pacific, so this is not a very practical strategy
You forget UK can purchase up to 3 Subs, 1 DD (26 IPC) on UK3. Put 3 Subs in SZ109, 1 DD in SZ110. NCM its Bomber to Iceland.
Russia can add a Sub or two as early purchases and move up to 3 SS from SZ125 to SZ110. 12 IPC isn’t a HUGE world of difference for Moscow over 3 turns of purchases, its the equivalent of 4 less Inf - which TBH if you wait until G4 to move on Moscow at the cost of 4 Less Inf for Moscow, that won’t break their back.
R4 sends 3 Subs from SZ125 - SZ110
UK4 sends 3 Subs, 1 Bomber (SZ109, Iceland to land in Eire).
US4 Can send many different arrays of units, I prefer 2 Ftr/TacB with 4-5 Bombers because if you turn on Moscow I can use some of those Bombers in the Pacific and if any of the Ftr/TacB survive, I can land them on Eire to help defend all those Bombers I sent.
How long can Berlin hold out from a Russian push with its units trapped on London, even after taking London? Long enough for Japan to win the Pacific after the US went 90% Atlantic?
I agree with you! Defending those bombers will make the move even better.
Z110 where can US land?
Norway,Denmark (if soviet build a tranny turn 3), Scotland, Eire or London
If germany is to attack the soviet tranny with 4 planes round 3 Sealion is over and Russia is free to attack a round earlier.
And if you dont take london bombers will come either way just to sink the trannies! Then they will fly back to fight Japan :-P
Honestly i miscounted the spaces from E USA to SZ110 lol
This is a good counter then.
So basically unless the allied player does not play well there will be no sealion ?
I wouldn’t worry too much about defending the bombers. Those planes are committing suicide. I would even lose the fighters and tacs before the bombers so then I don’t have to move my carriers to z104 - going out Panama is much better. A naval base in Panama and new planes in western US puts a strong carrier force in Hawaii the following turn.
I actually tried the Soviet subs idea once and learned that they have a rough time against the destroyer and fighters before the American airstrike. Right after the airstrike, though would be a great time for the British subs to finish off anything left alfoat. Iceland bomber and planes from Scotland/Eireland too. Or, the subs can always sit there in z109 and convoy raid.
@Uncrustable:
So basically unless the allied player does not play well there will be no sealion ?
Correct.
True with the “no go” on Sea Lion, its simply impossible now. But faking a Sea Lion round one is still smart, as no matter how you turn it UK still has to commit to defence! And US and Russia will have to be very skilled players in order to help out. (most players dont know the bomber move)
@Vance:
I wouldn’t worry too much about defending the bombers. Those planes are committing suicide. I would even lose the fighters and tacs before the bombers so then I don’t have to move my carriers to z104 - going out Panama is much better. A naval base in Panama and new planes in western US puts a strong carrier force in Hawaii the following turn.
I actually tried the Soviet subs idea once and learned that they have a rough time against the destroyer and fighters before the American airstrike. Right after the airstrike, though would be a great time for the British subs to finish off anything left alfoat. Iceland bomber and planes from Scotland/Eireland too. Or, the subs can always sit there in z109 and convoy raid.
Here’s why I use the Russian SS:
A: Land a hit and Tip the BB.
B: Get lucky with 2 hits and German player can make the mistake of tipping the CV too (German players aren’t used to preserving their CV for Ftrs to land on).
C: With that lucky roll, Germans make mistake of not landing on London means they can only scramble up to 3 Ftr if they bought an AB in Holland. Or even better, if they SBR that AB on London earlier, they can’t scramble from it even if they DO land on London.
D: If the German player didn’t place any DD in SZ110 from Normandy, then if they take the DD as a second casualty, the UK subs can’t be hit by German aircraft.
Basically I’m willing to hope for a single hit, and get lucky with misplays by the German Admiral unaccustomed to preserving his fleet properly.
Sea lion can “work” (i.e. you take London), about 2/3 of the time even if the Allies have prepared well for it and Germany throws EVERY resource into it, but then Germany loses the game because they did throw EVERY resurce into it. Pyrrhic vitory, stupid idea. However, if the allies botch the first round Germany can do a different kind of sea lion very successfully. It usaully consists of around 8 transports or so; not 13.
Here’s why I use the Russian SS:
A: Land a hit and Tip the BB.
B: Get lucky with 2 hits and German player can make the mistake of tipping the CV too (German players aren’t used to preserving their CV for Ftrs to land on).
C: With that lucky roll, Germans make mistake of not landing on London means they can only scramble up to 3 Ftr if they bought an AB in Holland. Or even better, if they SBR that AB on London earlier, they can’t scramble from it even if they DO land on London.
D: If the German player didn’t place any DD in SZ110 from Normandy, then if they take the DD as a second casualty, the UK subs can’t be hit by German aircraft.
Basically I’m willing to hope for a single hit, and get lucky with misplays by the German Admiral unaccustomed to preserving his fleet properly.
Yeah I can see how that would work, but those subs will be toast no matter how many hits they get. The time I did it my 3 subs got 1 hit :-( 3 British subs might sink the remnants and actually survive to convoy raid.
Ya, I don’t really expect more than a single hit from those subs.
Well worth if though if it preserves a US Bomber that can SBR German IC’s during Moscow’s push into Berlin.
