Kill America Second?

[munchie19]

I’ve completed two rounds as the axis, they are setting themselves up for a victory if the dice cooperate. The board has been up in my living room for weeks and I’ve been contemplating a serious run at invading America using all three Axis powers either in the third or fourth turn. Has anybody ever had any success with invading America, maybe not the Eastern, Central, or Western territories, using all three axis powers in the same turn?

[munchie19]

Kill America Third, Germany has already captured England and France.

[Spendo02]

You take London, you can basically forget about making a move on the US.

The US DOW and upgrade to major IC’s = 2 turns before any german units end up in SZ101 and plenty of US resources if German ships end up anywhere other than the English Channel on G3.

Oh and Russia should probably be in Poland (and hence 1 move from Berlin) if you do indeed take London.

[MacNaughton]

I have not had success trying to take USA after a sealion. It is too difficult for Germany to continuelly land reinforcements (it takes a transport 2 turns to get from Germany’s major IC to North America). Germany doesn’t have the money to buy naval units to defend all those transports, refill the the transports with land units, and keep Russia off their back door. USA can place thirty units within two spaces of their capital every turn (assuming they have enough money). Any Canadian territories that USA liberates will add to the American income (since London has been taken).

The way I see it, Germany going for USA is playing into the Allies’ hands. USA’s biggest difficulty is figuring out how to cross oceans in order to have an effect in the rest of the world. If Germany crosses the ocean, you are removing USA’s biggest difficulty.

I would love to be proven wrong, but I think the only way to conquer USA is with a very clever surprise attack coming from Italy, Japan and Germany in the same turn- preferably before USA can benefit from their wartime economy.

[Gargantua]

What I would do… is build up off of Gibraltar,  you’re going to want to keep it secure anyways from Allied invasion.  If you can keep a decent sized navy around there, there is a chance the US won’t even see it coming.

[Spendo02]

@MacNaughton:

I would love to be proven wrong, but I think the only way to conquer USA is with a very clever surprise attack coming from Italy, Japan and Germany in the same turn- preferably before USA can benefit from their wartime economy.

^This is about the only way you can try to pull it off.

And even then I think the US will have to make some blunders to give it a 60-40 chance the US falls.

[munchie19]

I agree, that’s the only way I see it working out, I also have the Japanese keeping the Americans occupied, I was going to attempt to use the Italians as well from Gibraltar to hit the US. I’ve only considered this strat cuz my opponents don’t see a lot of my moves until they happen. I know this strat is extremely risky, which is why I’m only slightly considering it.

[Spendo02]

Italy needs Gib on I1, so that on I2 it can stage in SZ91 to hit SZ101 on I3.

Still, that leaves Italy pretty naked in the Med and only able to bring its I1 naval purchase with it (either SS or DD) and that possibly won’t survive UK2 moving in to convoy Italy.

If Italy ignores the Med, the UK/French will mass up in SZ97 with an AC, 2 Ftr, 2 CR, 3 DD and basically take away any Italian IPC from I2 on until its relieved of the Convoy damage by German assistance.

Realistically Italy may not fall right away, but its made entirely irrelevant if you try to use them to help Germany KAF.

Italy has better uses, and KAF isn’t very realistic for Italy in any manner.

Thats just one example why KAF isn’t very good, bordering on the quickest way to lose the game as the Axis.

[techroll42]

I see no way that this is a good idea, unless you can sneak it off from Gibraltar and TAKE EASTERN US.

Anything else, the US just crushes your expeditionary force.

Overall not a good idea–you don’t need any of those VC’s.

Plus I don’t really like Sealion anyways  :-D :-D :-D

[knp7765]

Actually, if you want to have the Germans take Eastern US, you need to NOT do Sealion.  You do everything like you are planning for Sealion:  kill the Royal Navy, build up with lots of transports and men, tanks and artillery to go in them along with the usual AC build.  Have Italy take and hold Gibraltar so Germany can make use of the naval base.  Germany slips down from SZ 112 to SZ 91 on G3.  If US sees it coming, with any luck Italy may have enough navy left to go clear out any blockers US may send out to SZ 102 or SZ 89.  Then on G4, you launch from SZ 91 and attack SZ 101/Eastern USA.

On the Pacific side, Japan should gather their navy in SZ 6 and build as many transports/inf/art or armor as they can.  THen Japan should try to hit SZ 1/British Columbia on J3 so they can go after Western USA on J4.  Yeah, this will bring USA into the war a little earlier but not enough to make a difference.  Normally, USA DOW on the Collect Income phase of US3.  In this case, they would be able to DOW in the Combat Move phase.  HOwever, they would still just have the 52 IPCs to spend during their Purchase Units phase.

One problem with this is if US puts any ships in the Sea Zones between SZ 6 and SZ 1.  Then the Jap navy will have to attack them early to clear a path for their transports J3, which will mean USA might be in the war US 2 and have something like 77 IPCs to spend at what are now Major ICs (many more units).  You would have to see just what USA does then to decide if you want to continue with this strategy.  Even if Japan doesn’t attack the Western US, Germany could possibly still pull off an invasion of Eastern US, but might face more US units in a possible counter attack.  Also, if Germany decides going after USA is just too risky, that big fleet could still be used for Sealion if you wish.  Or, in two moves, it could be used to invade Leningrad for a big push into Russia.

Main problem with this idea is it’s kind of “all or nothing”.  If Germany and Japan try this and are successful, then they will probably win the game for the AXis.  If they fail for whatever reason, the Axis will be doomed.  They will have spent their money on troops and equipment that were sent off to die half the world away and their home fronts will be much weaker than normal.  All the other Allies will just have all sorts of fun with that.

[techroll42]

And another problem is

a. Canada will be building/have units. If the Germans barely make it ashore, then they could be hit by the British.

b. If you don’t do Sealion or Barbarossa, there’ll be quick/easy landings in France or Germany and the Reds will easily march into Eastern Europe grabbing the easy NO…

[Spendo02]

USA will be able to put 10 Inf in E.USA if you allow it to declare war on US3… Don’t think this is a good idea at all, but G4 is probably the earliest you should hit them and have ANY shot, albeit slight, of succeeding.

[Guest]

You can confort yourself with the point that if Axis where to take Moscow, and if allies want to keep playing, USA will fall at eventually. (after all the other allies)

[techroll42]

Kill America last

(After:
France
China
India
Russia
ANZAC
Great Britain)

[450thMSAF]

I would stock-pile german troops in british colmbia after a succeful sea-lion

-OR-

Make Western U.S a new home for Japan and tromp the U.S from the other side

Im Finally posting again  :-D

[techroll42]

Sending Japanese units to Western US is wasteful.

Without Germany, they’re crushed.
With Germany, they’re essentially stuck doing nothing overseas for a few turns.