Japanese Indian Bomber Push

[MrMalachiCrunch]

I’m sure for those who enjoy a wider crowd of opponents this strategy has been tried and deemed an epic FAIL.  This is why I’ve never heard of it before, no doubt long ago been discarded in the trash-bin of history.

Roughly by round 4-5 Japan is in possession of India and the allies are setting up the Atlantic transport requiring naval strong points in Sz2 and probably Sz5.  Most likely a Fortress Europe mindset is being setup by the Axis with typical Atlantic and Pacific openings like Sz52 on J1.  Dice and slight variations in openings do and will occur.  My last game I had a total whiff on G1 in Egypt and took 2 hits.  What a choice for the next round of combat……  By round 4-5 the game usually falls into a typical KGF with the Atlantic Shuck and the Japanese Navy having run of the Pacific.  Obviously there exists a percentage of games that won’t apply to this.  (I’ll leave it up to the critical/determined reader to document and determine the exact %)

With Japanese carriers in Sz34 with some fighters loaded (read 4 when possible) Jap can land 4 fighters in Europe anywhere required to help defend a Brit-US 1-2 assult.  A few Japanese fighters land based in Europe allows for more options.

After this point Japan has efficiently used its initial 1 transport and the 3 built on R1 and a few more over the following rounds.  With tight planning and taking advantage of opportunities Japan may have had to build a few air assets (a bomber or two with saving a few pennies) to avoid stranding land forces in Jap unable to move off for a round or 2.  So an Indian IC has no doubt been built and a second in FIC, but 2 ICs and 8+ transports is an inefficient allocation of resources by Japan most times in my opinion and it might be a single Indian IC backed up with transports is optimal.  It’s what I try for but at times the situation dictates an IC in FIC to get going.  Moreover, with only 1 IC on the mainland, if Japan has to trade that IC and land in asia to destroy the allied fleet it would be well worth it.

The allies are also carefully balancing naval purchases, just enough defensive ships/planes to protect the transports and maybe a bit more if it gives you options for which the Axis must defend against, but most likely, the concentration is boots on the ground.

This is where a few bomber builds by round 6-7ish and the Indian IC come into play.  Japanese fighters that can hit Sz5 are positioned and the Japanese bombers are getting into position ideally in WEu.  At some point Japan pulls the trigger, maybe an initial bomber build in Jap A) lull the allies by having the bomber distant and to allow the mainland ICs to produce infantry.  But perhaps a build of more than 1 bomber should be 3 in India for a complete surprise, 2 in Japan might raise an eybrow unless you had no transports to move boots off of Japan.  Perhaps creating the illusion of a screw-up in logistics forced you to build bombers in Japan, oh Drat!  Then next round move them into position and build 3 more in India!

At this point Germany has to hold 2 territories for a bit…the gamble!

The allies immediately have to defend Sz5 against a few bombers in Japan and the new 3 bomber build in India.  If they had open slots on carriers then the allies have to pull back fighters if they are forward based.  In any case, 5 new bombers in 1 round is a hell of a change to Sz5.  If no attack is feasible yet then the bombers based in Weu in range of Sz2.  Now the allies MUST defend every bomber twice in Sz2 and Sz5.

Bombers built in FIC cannot hit Sz5 the next round so I don’t think that is a starter.  The idea is the sudden swing in game board dynamics.  Now if Germany falls the round Japan destroys the allied navy it’s perhaps an epic FAIL.  On the other hand, if the Japanese navy enters the Mediterranean just as the bomber trap is sprung they can land boots on the ground in Europe to help make it a Pyrrhic victory if Germany does fall after a bloody 1-2-3 allied punch then loses the navy.

The idea is to force a stalemate beside Germany and cut the allies off from reinforcements.   A stalemate with the Axis in control of Africa and fending off the allies in Asia. means the income should favour the Axis.  Even if income in Asia is denied Japan as long as the big money goes to England and the US who now have no way of getting production to the mainland.

[Hobbes]

@MrMalachiCrunch:

This is where a few bomber builds by round 6-7ish and the Indian IC come into play.  Japanese fighters that can hit Sz5 are positioned and the Japanese bombers are getting into position ideally in WEu.  At some point Japan pulls the trigger, maybe an initial bomber build in Jap A) lull the allies by having the bomber distant and to allow the mainland ICs to produce infantry.  But perhaps a build of more than 1 bomber should be 3 in India for a complete surprise, 2 in Japan might raise an eybrow unless you had no transports to move boots off of Japan.  Perhaps creating the illusion of a screw-up in logistics forced you to build bombers in Japan, oh Drat!  Then next round move them into position and build 3 more in India!

At this point Germany has to hold 2 territories for a bit…the gamble!

The allies immediately have to defend Sz5 against a few bombers in Japan and the new 3 bomber build in India.  If they had open slots on carriers then the allies have to pull back fighters if they are forward based.  In any case, 5 new bombers in 1 round is a hell of a change to Sz5.  If no attack is feasible yet then the bombers based in Weu in range of Sz2.  Now the allies MUST defend every bomber twice in Sz2 and Sz5.

Bombers built in FIC cannot hit Sz5 the next round so I don’t think that is a starter.  The idea is the sudden swing in game board dynamics.  Now if Germany falls the round Japan destroys the allied navy it’s perhaps an epic FAIL.  On the other hand, if the Japanese navy enters the Mediterranean just as the bomber trap is sprung they can land boots on the ground in Europe to help make it a Pyrrhic victory if Germany does fall after a bloody 1-2-3 allied punch then loses the navy.

Nice idea. I regularly use the Indian IC to push the UK out of SZ5 and and I thought I had put it on the Fortress Europe strategy article. You may get lucky to hit the UK fleet on SZ5 if the UK player doesn’t notice but that’s a mistake he will not repeat.

[MrMalachiCrunch]

Hobbes, I read your FE article a few times long long ago when it seemed there was so much to take in.  It’s funny how over time the game seems smaller and more subtle.   I’ve actually recommended it to a few of my local friends as a primer in advanced play.  Again, superb job with that article.

Perhaps I did read it in your article long ago and my subconscious massaged it as an original thought!  In any event, bombers created in India to threaten Sz5.  Seems like a heck of an idea, the mere threat would force the allies into building in some slack in their logistics-defense system.

[Hobbes]

@MrMalachiCrunch:

Hobbes, I read your FE article a few times long long ago when it seemed there was so much to take in.  It’s funny how over time the game seems smaller and more subtle.   I’ve actually recommended it to a few of my local friends as a primer in advanced play.  Again, superb job with that article.

Perhaps I did read it in your article long ago and my subconscious massaged it as an original thought!  In any event, bombers created in India to threaten Sz5.  Seems like a heck of an idea, the mere threat would force the allies into building in some slack in their logistics-defense system.

I discovered it also by accident (scratch one unsuspecting UK fleet on SZ5) some time ago. The FE article already had mentioned the possibility of Japan building additional planes to keep the Allies building ships on the Pacific or to replace any initial casualties but I guess I forget to add the Indian IC on a later revision of the article.
The main problem is to overdo it - Japan really needs the Indian IC pumping as many infantry as possible but 1 or 2 bombers are feasible, specially if the UK fleet is in SZ6. Germany needs also to be ready to take advantage from stopping the UK fleet from landing on Karelia - either by stacking it or by stacking Ukraine.
If you haven’t seen the article on a bit I’ve also added some details about the combined Germany-Japan air/naval attack on the Atlantic (I call it the Alpha Strike). The Axis ability to perform it is one of the key features of Fortress Europe, even if it is never used during a game because of the harassment it provokes on the Atlantic.
I’ve only tried moving the Japanese fleet for the Mediterranean/Atlantic a few times and… it adds more pressure but the Allies can prevent it from breaking to the Atlantic and it can simply became trapped in the Med and sunk by Allied planes, unless you bring the fighters there, but in that case they are not threatening the Atlantic and you’ve lost initiative to the Allies. I’ve also seen the US drop a carrier and transport on the Pacific as a response and that can be a major harassment for J.

[MrMalachiCrunch]

I agree that having the Japanese fleet enter the Atlantic is usually a mistake for the reasons you mentioned.  I rarely enter the Mediterranean with the Japanese fleet and it’s almost always to secure Africa.  Sitting with bombers in WEu and fleet in Sz13 with transports forces the allies to amalgamate the Sz2 and Sz5 fleet in Sz6 or risk losing one or the other.  If the brits can’t stand alone against the Germans then so much the better.  Moreover, Britain is now threatened by invasion.  So the allies defend against this but have to forgo moving US forces from ECa to GBr.  Once this disruption occurs its probably time to sacrifice 1 transport to take Brazil with a lone infantry and pull the Japanese fleet back to SZ15 or 14.  14 has the added advantage the fighters defending the fleet can hit Sz5 but must land in Ger.  A shrewd Japanese player always builds in flexibility by having a few land based fighters to then land on the CVs.  From 14 its easier to jump to Sz34 and get out of dodge and one can then release the fighters.

[MrMalachiCrunch]

Hobbes, have you thought about doing this bomber strategy but combined with a Japanese Mediterranean fleet move, specifically having the Japanese 2 CVs starting in Sz15.  For stated reasons you wouldn’t want to be hanging out there.  Depending on the size of the gamble it could be a single move/build sequence or a large gamble and more than one iteration of bomber builds.  In any event, a bomber build in India in one round threatens Sz5, then on the next that build threatens Sz5 and Sz2 when they move to WEu.  If Japanese CVs can be placed in Sz15 on the round of the bomber build, they then move to Sz13.  4 fighters either in Sz13 or in WEu can now threaten Sz2 along with the now 4 bombers as the CVs can in non-combat move to Sz8 to pick them up.  I guess you wouldn’t want to put too much firepower in and HAVE to move a CV to recover surviving fighters.  Moreover, a few transports now means England itself is under threat so the allies might want to use a blocker in Sz12 which must come from Sz2 most likely, thinning the very target we intend to attack.  If England is too heavily defend to attempt the Amphib assult and no blocker in Sz12 exists then a quick dash (suicide if need be) to take Bra with a lone Japanese Infantry.

Now I guess if a blocker exists in Sz12 you would have to attack it at least 1 round in order to be able to claim to be in a position to recover surviving fighters that you intend not to exist?  Krieg?

[newpaintbrush]

As Axis, I’ve used a Jap fleet in the Mediterranean as part of a successful campaign to push the Allies out of Africa.  On the other hand, as Allies, I’ve taken control of Africa and locked the Jap fleet in the Mediterranean where I could destroy it at my leisure.

Different situations lead to particular strategies working, or not working.

[MrMalachiCrunch]

How about the situation where your 9 attacking bombers do half the hits of the 6 defending fighters……I just used/stumbled into this ploy Med fleet attack Sz2 from Sz13 and the bomber push from India.  I really wonder about the random number generator in this game.  Yeah well all have heard people blaming the dice and half of us have, myself more than once!  But rolling 6 sixes out of 9 dice with the bombers whereas the defender hits all 6 times…  Same game I attacked a lone tank with 3 infantry and a fighter.  I miss he hits, I miss he hits, I miss he hits.  Same game on G1 my Egypt round one consisted of missing with  a tank, fighter, 2 infantry and and artillery and of course the defender hits 2 out of 3.  I probably should have continued the attack but at the point I figured I should concentrate on Europe.  What would you have done Bunnies?

[Hobbes]

@MrMalachiCrunch:

Hobbes, have you thought about doing this bomber strategy but combined with a Japanese Mediterranean fleet move, specifically having the Japanese 2 CVs starting in Sz15.  For stated reasons you wouldn’t want to be hanging out there.  Depending on the size of the gamble it could be a single move/build sequence or a large gamble and more than one iteration of bomber builds.  In any event, a bomber build in India in one round threatens Sz5, then on the next that build threatens Sz5 and Sz2 when they move to WEu.  If Japanese CVs can be placed in Sz15 on the round of the bomber build, they then move to Sz13.  4 fighters either in Sz13 or in WEu can now threaten Sz2 along with the now 4 bombers as the CVs can in non-combat move to Sz8 to pick them up.  I guess you wouldn’t want to put too much firepower in and HAVE to move a CV to recover surviving fighters.  Moreover, a few transports now means England itself is under threat so the allies might want to use a blocker in Sz12 which must come from Sz2 most likely, thinning the very target we intend to attack.  If England is too heavily defend to attempt the Amphib assult and no blocker in Sz12 exists then a quick dash (suicide if need be) to take Bra with a lone Japanese Infantry.

Now I guess if a blocker exists in Sz12 you would have to attack it at least 1 round in order to be able to claim to be in a position to recover surviving fighters that you intend not to exist?  Krieg?

IIRC (I’m currently away working) since you’re attacking SZ12 and declare the intent of moving the carrier to SZ8 pick the fighters afterwards then that’s perfectly legal.

As mentioned above, if you can get the Jap fleet to the Med without it being threatened and get that bomber buy then the Allies will have to make a major naval/air buy. It really depends on the situation but overall I can give major benefits to the Axis since it will always divert Allied IPCs to air/naval buys instead of ground units.
I think it’s really a matter of timing - if the Axis are putting enough pressure on the Soviets and the fall of Moscow is a matter of time then they can afford to lose the Japanese fleet.

[newpaintbrush]

@MrMalachiCrunch:

How about the situation where your 9 attacking bombers do half the hits of the 6 defending fighters……I just used/stumbled into this ploy Med fleet attack Sz2 from Sz13 and the bomber push from India.  I really wonder about the random number generator in this game.  Yeah well all have heard people blaming the dice and half of us have, myself more than once!  But rolling 6 sixes out of 9 dice with the bombers whereas the defender hits all 6 times…  Same game I attacked a lone tank with 3 infantry and a fighter.  I miss he hits, I miss he hits, I miss he hits.  Same game on G1 my Egypt round one consisted of missing with  a tank, fighter, 2 infantry and and artillery and of course the defender hits 2 out of 3.  I probably should have continued the attack but at the point I figured I should concentrate on Europe.  What would you have done Bunnies?

I’ve lost 5 out of 6 air to AA gun fire in a single round in real life.  When you have a lot of battles, you should EXPECT weird dice to come up for a few of them.

In the case of a G1 attack gone bad in Egypt, you have two options.  Keep going with moderately poor odds or take casualties on the infantry and artillery from Southern Europe and retreat the rest of your units to Libya.  Which is best depends on what’s going on in other parts of the board.

For example, when doing a West Russia/Ukraine attack with Russia, the West Russia battle should ALWAYS be done FIRST, because decisions about what to do in Ukraine may hinge on results of West Russia.  Having seven ground units surviving at West Russia makes for a completely different potential game to having ten ground units surviving at West Russia.

[MrMalachiCrunch]

Given enough trials, all outcomes will occur is true.   It will still be interesting to measure the distribution of numbers, and not just by rolling 6,000 dices and hoping each number roughly gets 1000 representations.

In that situation I took out Sz2 with loss of SS and Sz13 without loss.  It was going great for me, then that’s when it happens!  Oh yeah. 5 Inf+5 Tank build.  I chickened out, retreated to Libya, Brits took out fleet but the germans took out 6 land units in Alg with 4 in Libya and air support from WEu on G2.