thanks Tigerman
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they get southern europe, algeria and libya
S europe’s value incressed to 10 and Libya’s is incressed to 2 giving a total of 13 they also get more african troops and a formidible fleet that i’m still working out by reviwing some historical sites. -
Maybe he’s changing the IPC income value of Southern Europe along with his other tweaks–he’s probably changing the board setup A LOT to accomodate an additional player.
mini phreek I’d be interested to see your ideas: the way I see it Italy would only have like 3 territories (Southern Europe, Libya, and Italian East Africa (which is in British hands anyway!) and their main military asset would be a navy that is often destroyed the 1st few rounds in…how are you changing this? Please post your results…
Ozone27
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Yes, I’m intrested too. But by making SE worth 10 and turning some Brit positions to the Italians, what about play balancing issues? Or is simply spliting Germany’s forces enough? I could definately see Germany taking on Russia, while Italy works protecting WE and taking Africa.
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this is still subject to change so bear with me.
in Libya the italians lose the tank but gain 3 inf. for a total of 4 and gain a fighter in algeria (to acknolage the almost 600 planes they had in africa) total 1 inf. 1 fighter the troops in SEurope stay the same just become Italian, for there fleet in addition to the battleship and transport in the mid-meditranion they get a sub and in the persian gulf they eather get 1 sub 2 destroyers or 1 sub 1 battleship.
if you have sugestions or comments plese tell me -
Do you play with destroyers?
I would probably add 1 destroy, 1 transport to the home fleet. -
I also like the idea of 3 on 3 but the Italians didn’t really do sh!t in WW2 after the initial few months or so. Rommel and Germany were the ones that fought (and lost) in africa…I guess Italy was there too but to my recolection they didn’t do a whole hell of a lot. It seems like the italian player would just be bored out of his goard…i can’t spell goard… :sad: :sad:
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Ha, I don’t know what’s worst French or Italian troops. From what I heard the Italians were defeated on all fronts (naval and land) by the Brits. The Italians did have some pretty good pilots and aircraft though.
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yes, they had some excellent aircraft (and a good amount of them), a good fleet, and mediocre tanks. yet they couldn’t even take greece. they couldn’t take egypt they outn umbered the brits 5 to 1.
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Horten’s right: the Italians marched into Egypt w/ a HUGE superiority in numbers, but were so thoroughly defeated that Libya was threatened with invasion in the ensuing rout: prompting Hitler to send Rommel’s Afrika Korps to bail them out–more or less by permission of the Italians.
I don’t know much about Italian planes, but I do know that Italy had a very good, modern (though small) surface fleet consisting lergely of fast cruisers with a few state-of-the art fast BBs to boot. Many surface ships in the British navy of the time were old, and the fleet in general much slower than the Italians–so a straight head-to-head battle over Gibraltar (which was expected) might’ve been interesting. As it was the British took advantage of the Italians lack of AA mountings on their ships–a common problem early in the war–and sunk many of them in an air raid at Taranto.
I too think having a 3rd Axis player would be cool, but give him more than 13 IPC’s, man…c’mon…
Ozone27
[ This Message was edited by: Ozone27 on 2002-03-25 08:19 ]
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I know Italy lost but can you think of a better way to give the axis a 3ed player.
any way i took the tank in africa away becase in my reserch i descovered that the Italian tanks were no better then the britsh halftracks. i don’t want to increse the italians value to much (besides with the exrta troops and transport they can make up for it by taking africa). this next thing i need to do is figue out the order of play. my first idea was to put Italy at the end between USA and USSR but realizing that this gives UK a first attack and could really do damage to the italians before they get a chance to attack. so i may have to shuffle the entire order of play any sugestions.
my last note is regarding playing peices in AAE and AAP i don’t have a copy of them but are the shades notably diferent enough that i could use one as a diferent force? -
Make Italy (SE) worth 15. Though the axis will be making more IPCs, their money will be stretched becuase they attack on seperate turns.
The Italians don’t have Algeria (that was vichy france’s) but make libya 3 IPCs (good place for a future allied complex.) If Italy makes 18 IPCs, and minus the loss of effectives of being an entirely seperate country, I believe the game would balance out. maybe there would be no need for bidding!
how about making sicily worth money?
Rebuild the WTC larger:
http://www.rjdbiz.com/rebuildwtc/index.html
“The only enemy more powerful than an invisible enemy is an invincible enemy”[ This Message was edited by: HortenFlyingWing on 2002-03-25 13:35 ]
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Maybe give Italian infantry an attack value of zero and defense value of one? This way Italian forces would perform historically…they would’nt be able to do anything offensively but they could help out the Germans defensively a bit.
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i’m giving them algiria anyway.
I don’t want to give SE a larger value then Germany.
and i want Italy to be some kind of a threat to the allies so i’m not redusing there attack value.
i could increse Libya’s value to 3 but i think that as far as i go.
Italy’s Production was not that vary good at this point in the war anyway. -
How about this for a turn order?
Germany
Russia
Italy
Britain
Japan
USAand I think taking Germanys area of expansion away more than makes up for strenthening Italy.
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Russia (restricted :smile: )
Italy
Germany
Great Britain
Japan
AmericaItaly should have the oppurtunity to attack GB african positions b4 germany.
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I agree with the flying wing on the turn order, except that Germany should go first being the better country. But it really doesn’t matter since both Germany and Italy go before Britian. Also I wouldn’t consider Libya worth 3 IPCs. Even though it’s oil rich, no way could it be worth equal to Ukraine, Eastern Europe, Kerilia, or the Caucasus. Instead you should also give the Italians Egypt too since Rommel was pretty close to taking Cario. That why a 15 IPC Italy sounds about right. Also that post about making Sicily worth something. I think that would be a very valid option. Instead you could give Egypt to the Brits and make Sicily worth 2-3 IPCs.
As for the historical side note, it’s true that the Italians had a fairly modern Navy. However, without any air cover or good naval tactics, the Italians were soundly defeated by the British in such engagements as the Massacre off Cape Matapan.
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I think if sicily was made two IPCs, and Libya was 2 IPCs, and germany keeps algeria, and italy is 10 (remember there is greece and the balkans in that territory.
that way, italy makes 14, three infantry and a tank.
I would be very interested to play a game like this, but splitting the german axis might severely hurt the axis. That is why i support 3 ipcs in lybia. but if that hurt the historical damage. How about making albania and greece a seperate italian holding worth 3 ipcs? IMO italy has to make 18 IPCs to balance the new axis W/no bidding. If italy is 10, albania/greece is 3, and lybia is 2, and sicily is 2, and add a corisca on the map for 1 IPC.
Then Italy can be a real player, and the game can be more balanced. perhaps, the allies would be forced to attack the “soft underbelly” of europe,a dn there would be no need for bidding.
I only believe italy should go before germany is because germany would have to decide to either commit their forces to africa or to russia, depening on what italy does like the real war.
sorry for the misspellings!p.s. this would be awesome for a free for all!
Rebuild the WTC larger:
http://www.rjdbiz.com/rebuildwtc/index.html
“The only enemy more powerful than an invisible enemy is an invincible enemy”[ This Message was edited by: HortenFlyingWing on 2002-03-25 17:14 ]
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14-15 IPCs sounds like a good number. Here’s my suggestion Italy worth 8 IPCs (no way could it be worth more than Britain, Russia, Western Europe, or Japan even with the Balkans), Sicily wroth 2-3 IPCs, 2 Libya worth 2 IPCs, and Algeria worth 2 IPCs.
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we would have to see how a game would play out.
Italy had some decent aircraft made and in the works:
http://www.comandosupremo.com/Air2.html
http://www.comandosupremo.com/Air12.htmland how about that navy:
http://www.regiamarina.it/stats.htmthey had battleships that would make all but the japanese blush
http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/aquila_f.htm
even an aircraft carrier in the works
enjoy! the italians didn’t want to win… the italians didn’t react quick enough to destroy the british fleet, and then waited for the british to blow them away, like the swordfish bombers torpedo bombing capsizing 3 italian battleships.
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FIAT!? I can’t believe they actually made airplanes once. Anyways, the main Italian fighter I was thinking about was the Caproni Reggiana Re 2001 Falco II (1942). Not only did this plane look right but it flew right. Deadly with it’s Alfa Romeo-built Daimler-Benz DB 601 A engines in the skills of experienced Italian pilots. I wish I had some pictures to show, it was that nice looking compared with the snub nose “Arrow.”
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