I believe i read the poll question correctly YG :wink: The additional 4 unit bonus from liberating Paris is the only extra French units i’ve used in the OOB set up. Oztea’s 1941 asks for a bit more, which is fun, but obviously for a mod. Your purchases will be more than adequate IMO. The real question I want to know is…what’s this new UK Pacific Nation you speak of?? Excited to hear about that!
Alpha 3 setup changes
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You’re right; Malta does lose the airbase (which kind of sucks).
The big thing to me is that it would be less tempting for Germany to hit Normandy to get that fighter. They can focus more planes on France and the UK fleet.
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Gibralter also has the airbase removed.
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Holy Moly Larrie! The Gibraltar airbase is missing too! Thanks to both of you for pointing out those things I missed. Here is an ABattlemap map with the changes.
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I can understand removing the air base off of Malta, but why did Larry also remove the Gibraltar airbase? That just doesn’t seem right to me. Gibraltar is too valuable a location not to have that airbase. One thing is for sure, everyone will have to rethink staging a fleet off of Gibraltar if you can’t depend on scrambling fighters from the airbase for extra protection.
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Buy one turn 1 if not worried about Sealion. Seems like a good investment no matter what.
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Yes, but it @Leodor:
Buy one turn 1 if not worried about Sealion. Seems like a good investment no matter what.
Good investment indeed, but the change sounds a bit like harassing the UK.
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These changes seem to give the axis the equality that everyone has been screaming for.
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@Young:
These changes seem to give the axis the equality that everyone has been screaming for.
How’s that ? :?
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@Young:
These changes seem to give the axis the equality that everyone has been screaming for.
How’s that ? :?
Obviously, it remains arguable.
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The only really good new for Axis in the latest version of Alpha3 is the new german bmb.
The removal of the Malta airbase is good for axis, but that’s a gadget. It’s not going to make a big difference.
The removal of the AB in Gib is a double edged sword: it’s good for Axis when allies got Gib, but is good for Allies when Axis got Gib…
Less allies ground units to kill on G1 ? That’s fine and it helps, i admit. But it absolutely doesn’t make up for the beefing of UK and the loss of almost any serious Sealion threat in my opinion. -
Here is the latest setup after I cleaned up some of the puncuation errors, and aranged the territories in a way that is easier to set the board up, you can copy and print it as a useful tool.
National Setup by Power
Germany:
Germany: 11 Infantry, 3 Artillery, 1 Tac Bomber, 2 Bombers, 1 Major IC, 3 AA guns
Western Germany: 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 4 Mech Infantry, 2 Fighters, 3 Tac bombers, 3 AA guns, 1 Major IC, 1 Naval base, 1 Airbase
Greater Southern Germany: 6 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 3 Tanks
Slovakia/Hungary: 2 Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Fighter
Poland: 3 Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Tac Bomber
Romania: 2 Infantry, 1 Tank
Holland/Belgium: 4 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 3 Tanks, 1 Fighter
Norway: 3 Infantry, 1 Fighter
Denmark: 2 Infantry
Sea Zone 113: 1 Cruiser, 1 Battleship, Transport
Sea Zone 103: 1 U-Boat
Sea Zone 108: 1 U-boat
Sea Zone 117: 1 U-Boat
Sea Zone 118: 1 U-Boat
Sea Zone 124: 1 U-BoatSoviet Union:
Russia: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Mech Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Fighter, 1 Tac Bomber, 2 AA Guns, 1 Airbase, 1 Major IC
Novgorod: 6 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Fighter, 2 AA Gun, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Minor IC
Archangel: 1 Infantry
Karelia: 2 Infantry
Vyborg: 3 Infantry
Baltic States: 3 Infantry
Belarus: 1 Infantry
Eastern Poland: 2 Infantry
Western Ukraine: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Bessarabia: 2 Infantry
Ukraine: 3 Infantry, 1 Minor IC
Volgograd: 1 Tank, 1 Mech Infantry, 1 Minor IC
Caucasus: 2 Infantry
Buryatia: 6 Infantry
Sakha: 6 Infantry, 2 AA guns
Amur: 6 Infantry
Sea Zone 115: 1 Cruiser 1 Submarine
Sea Zone 127: 1 SubmarineJapan:
Japan: 6 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 1 Tank, 2 Fighters, 2 Tac Bombers, 2 Bombers, 3 AA Guns, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Major IC
Korea: 4 Infantry, 1 Fighter
Manchuria: 6 Infantry, 1 Mech Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 AA Gun, 2 Fighters, 2 Tac Bombers
Jehol: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Shantung: 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Kiangsu: 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Fighter, 1 Tac Bomber
Kiangsi: 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Kwangsi: 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Siam: 2 Infantry
Iwo Jima: 1 Infantry
Okinawa: 1 Infantry, 1 Fighter
Formosa: 1 Fighter
Palau Island: 1 Infantry
Caroline Islands: 2 Infantry, 1 AA gun, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base
Sea Zone 6: 1 Submarine, 2 Destroyers, 2 Carriers each with 1 Tac & 1 Ftr., 1 Cruiser, 1 Battleship, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 19: 1 Submarine, 1 Battleship, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 33: 1 Destroyer, 1 Carrier w/ 1 Tac & 1 Ftr.
Sea Zone 20: 1 Cruiser, 1 TransportUnited Kingdom: (Atlantic side of map)
United Kingdom: 2 Infantry, 2 Fighters, 1 Bomber, 4 AA guns, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Major IC
Scotland: 1 Infantry, 1 Fighter, 1 Airbase
Ontario: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Quebec: 1 Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Minor IC
New Brunswick Nova Scotia: 1 Naval Base
Iceland: 1 Airbase
Gibraltar: 1 Fighter, 1 Naval Base
Malta: 1 Infantry, 1 Fighter, 1 AA gun,
Alexandria: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Tank
Egypt: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Mech Infantry, 1 Naval Base
Anglo-Egyptian Sudan: 1 Infantry
Union of South Africa: 2 Infantry, 1 Naval Base, 1 Minor IC
West India: 1 Infantry
Sea Zone 106: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 109: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 110: 1 Cruiser, 1 Battleship
Sea Zone 111: 1 Destroyer, 1 Battleship
Sea Zone 112: 1 Cruiser
Sea Zone 91: 1 Cruiser
Sea Zone 98: 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Carrier w/1 Tac Bomber, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 71: 1 DestroyerUnited Kingdom: (Pacific side of the map)
India: 6 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 2 AA Guns, 1 Fighter, 1 Tac Bomber, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Major IC
Burma: 2 Infantry, 1 Fighter
Malaya: 3 Infantry, 1 Naval Base
Kwangtung: 2 Infantry, 1 Naval Base
Sea Zone 37: 1 Battleship
Sea Zone 39: 1 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser, 1 TransportANZAC:
Queensland: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Fighter, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base.
New South Wales: 2 Infantry, 2 AA guns, 1 Minor IC, 1 Naval Base.
New Zealand: 1 Infantry, 2 Fighters, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base.
Malaya: 1 Infantry
Egypt: 2 infantry
Sea Zone 62: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 63: 1 CruiserItaly:
Northern Italy: 2 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 1 Tank, 1 Bomber, 2 AA Guns, 1 Major IC
Southern Italy: 6 Infantry, 2 Fighters, 2 AA Guns, 1 Naval Base, 1 Airbase, 1 Minor IC
Albania: 2 Infantry, 1 Tank
Libya: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Tobruk: 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Mech Infantry, 1 Tank
Ethiopia : 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Italian Somaliland: 1 Infantry
Sea Zone 95: 1 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser, 1 Submarine, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 96: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 97: 1 Cruiser, 1 Battleship, 1 TransportUnited States:
Eastern United States: 1 Infantry, 1 Fighter, 1 Artillery, 2 AA Guns, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Minor IC
Central United States: 1 Infantry, 3 Mech Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Bomber, 1 Minor IC
Western US: 2 Infantry, 1 Mech Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Fighter, 2 AA Guns, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Minor IC
Hawaiian Islands: 2 Infantry, 2 Fighters, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base.
Philippines: 2 Infantry, 1 Fighter, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base.
Midway: 1 Airbase
Wake Island: 1 Airbase
Guam: 1 Airbase
Sea Zone 10: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport, Carrier w/Tac & Ftr
Sea Zone 26: 1 Submarine, 1 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 35: 1 Destroyer, 1 Submarine
Sea Zone 101: 1 Cruiser, 1 TransportChina:
Suiyuyan: 2 Infantry
Shensi: 1 Infantry
Kweichow: 2 Infantry
Hunan: 2 Infantry
Yunnan: 4 Infantry
Szechwan: 6 Infantry, 1 FighterFrance:
France: 6 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 2 Tanks, 1 AA gun, 1 Fighter, 1 Airbase, 1 Major IC
Normandy/Bordeaux: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Naval Base, 1 Minor IC
Southern France: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Naval Base, 1 Minor IC
United Kingdom: 1 Infantry, 1 Fighter
Morocco: 1 Infantry
Algeria: 1 Infantry
Tunisia: 1 Infantry
Syria: 1 Infantry
French West Africa: 1 Infantry
Sea Zone 72: 1 Destroyer
Sea Zone 93: 1 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser
Sea Zone 112: 1 Cruiser -
With these changes I see at least 3 possibilities for UK in the med:
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Run like hell out the suez.
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Sink Italy’s fleet with Taranto raid - mutual annihilation.
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Give the axis two bad choices. Attack z96 with 1 fig, 1 tac, then move everything that floats to z92 except 1 blocker in z94. Axis can choose either:
3a Italy attacks z94 (and z93), and makes an amphibious landing at Algeria so the Luftwaffe can wipe out z92 and land planes there G2. Germany sinks the UK fleet but so much of the luftwaffe is gone that the campaign against USSR will likely fail. Pretty crappy.
3b Save the luftwaffe(!) and use Italy’s transports for Greece or Syria, but allow UK to park that carrier etc in z109 and never convoy them for the rest of the game. Also crappy.
If I were UK I would buy a new carrier for z109 rather than an airbase for Gibraltar, and run like hell out the suez. I give up the med, but I own the Indian ocean and shuck inf to Egypt from South Africa and/or West India.
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@Vance:
Germany sinks the UK fleet but so much of the luftwaffe is gone that the campaign against USSR will likely fail. Pretty crappy.
I believe the oposite…I would happily give 3-5 planes to get rid of the UK fleet on G2.
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A lot would depend on what Germany does to z110 G1. For Germany it might be wise to leave it alone and hope UK decides to mass the whole fleet in z92 so you can sink them all, despite losses to Luftwaffe. Then stick subs in z109
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@Vance:
A lot would depend on what Germany does to z110 G1. For Germany it might be wise to leave it alone and hope UK decides to mass the whole fleet in z92 so you can sink them all, despite losses to Luftwaffe. Then stick subs in z109
Again, i must disagree…After France (of course), sz110 is always my most important target on G1. I can eventually let the sz111 ships live, but certainly not the sz110 ones.
sz 92 is too tough (or too costly) to crack if you let the brits add the sz 110 ships. -
The UK ran away and gave me the med once when I was playing Italy. I achieved all my NOs by the end of round 2 (except for the Persian territories).
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there is running away and running away……
Stacking the maximum units in Egy and Trj on UK1 (as to make those territories impossible to take for the italians with decent odds), and stacking all your sea units that can make it in sz 81. That’s the set up that gives me the hardest time in Alpha 3.
Haven’t found yet a satisfying solution for that…Now, you have to watch out for every move of the UK fleet into the med, and leaving a blocker in sz98 might not work as the pesky french dd (from sz76, placed on sz81 on F1) can kill that blocker.
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I guess what I am saying is that if Germany hits z110, then UK might not feel strong enough to defend z92 and run like a baby out suez, thus creating all kinds of problems later (i.e. parking in z81 and pinning down the Italian fleet like you said. Someone would have to cough up a $15 airbase in Greece just so they can have air cover to go into Syria. yuck).
If Germany hits z111 instead of z110, then UK might feel strong enough to mass in z92 where you can sink them G2, albeit at heavy loss of planes. One downside to this is that even if UK takes the bait, Germany’s planes that survive will be stuck way off in Algeria for a turn so attacking USSR might have to be put off until G3. Decisions, decisions….
As UK I am back to running out the suez either way, with my brand new carrier safely moored in z109 and the Italians unable to leave harbor.
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This is a post I wrote earlier for another thread, but I’m coping it here because it’s relevent to the conversation. I know that it’s agressive for the allies, but its designed to give Italy fits and defend all UK territories in Africa.
My only attack UK1 in the Med would be SZ#96 with my aircraft carrier and all 3 air units available.
My non-combat would be:
1. I would land the fighter from Gibraltar on the carrier if it survived, & I would fly the remaining 2 air units to Egypt ( I would be sure to leave 1 fighter on the carrier)
2. I would move my Cruiser from 91 (assuming I still have it) into 94, blocking Gibraltar
3. I would move my Destroyer and Cruiser from 98 into 99 blocking Egypt
4. I would move my transport from 98 to 96 and pick up 1 infantry and 1 AA Gun from Malta, and move to 81 where I would drop them in Egypt
5. I would move the destroyer from 71 into 81.
6. I would move the Cruiser and Destroyer from 39 into 76
7. I would move the Battle ship from 37 into 75
8. I would move any ship that survived in the earlier Atlantic battles into 91
9. I would move my 2 Infantry from South Africa to Rhodesia
10. I would move 1 Infantry from Egypt & 1 Tank from Alexandria to Anglo-Egypt Sudan
11. I would move the Infantry from West India into Eastern Persia.
12. And I would pull back 1 Infantry & 1 Artillery from Alexandria to Egypt (leaving 1 Infantry in Alexandria as a blocker)After all this, the Italians are completely surrounded without any chance of getting Gibraltar or the Suez. That will allow the reinforcement ships from India and the surviving ships from the Atlantic to enter the Med in UK2. The transport in 81 can ferry back and forth from 71 to 81, helping the new units from South Africa get to Egypt faster (the Calcutta transport will be to busy making money on the Islands). Germany will get strong, but when the entire Italian fleet is sunk, Italy will be a non factor for the rest of the game which may force Germany to pull back. If this kill Italy first strategy works, the end result will be a landing on rome with the help of an Egyptian factory (hopefully, before Moscow falls).
For this to happen the US will need to build a fleet during peace time in the Pacific and move what they start with down to 54. Everything in 54 when they enter the game at the end of round 3, will allow them to protect Calcutta and the Philippines. They also need a small landing force in the east to support Gibraltar when they enter the war. After securing 91, their transports should go to Brazil while their warships enter the Med and help make sure Italy stays out of the water.
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Well, with that set-up, you will for sure slow down the italians, but you’ll end up losing about all your units in sz94, 96 and 99 (with very minimal losses for Axis) before you get to play UK2….So losing all those naval units (and air if you land on the sz96 carrier ) just to slow down the italians for 1 round…well that just can’t be a good idea in my opinion.
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