Med Indefensible for the Axis?

[qwertyuiop]

Take 2 italy transports with the 4 units to Gibralter, then land German planes, then italy can invade mexico, then take the german planes to mexico to support a KAF japan attack on western usa

[SgtBlitz]

@domicron:

Take Gibraltar and close the Mediterranean?

NO.  HOW???  Gibraltar can be taken from both SZ 91 and 92.  The Allies can have anywhere from 3-10 transports in range of Gibraltar from just about any SZ with a NB in the Atlantic.  The Axis has at most 2-3 in range in the Med.  Unless you can somehow have more troops in Gibraltar than the Allies can transport in at any given time (which I don’t see happening unless Germany takes Spain and invades overland), the Allies will always have control of Gibraltar.  What’s even worse is that the Allies can replace their trans and troops at will, whereas Italy doesn’t have enough money to bother trying.

However, a lot of games I’ve seen lately, the Allies ignore Italy and the Med entirely and let the Brits do all the work from their minor IC in S. Africa.  Seems to work fairly well.  It may not even come up in a game.

[SgtBlitz]

@qwertyuiop:

Take 2 italy transports with the 4 units to Gibralter, then land German planes, then italy can invade mexico, then take the german planes to mexico to support a KAF japan attack on western usa

One of those transports usually dies in the UK1 Taranto raid.  SZ 90 and SZ 88 can easily be blocked by the US/UK on their first/second turns.  The US can also easily counter with ARM and MECH from E US, not mention planes and bombers in range.

It might be a cool trick to try against new players though.  US gets war dec bonus at end of round 2!  Try it out!

[qwertyuiop]

@SgtBlitz:

@qwertyuiop:

Take 2 italy transports with the 4 units to Gibralter, then land German planes, then italy can invade mexico, then take the german planes to mexico to support a KAF japan attack on western usa

One of those transports usually dies in the UK1 Taranto raid.  SZ 90 and SZ 88 can easily be blocked by the US/UK on their first/second turns.  The US can also easily counter with ARM and MECH from E US, not mention planes and bombers in range.

It might be a cool trick to try against new players though.  US gets war dec bonus at end of round 2!  Try it out!

I was hoping that the german subs would deal with that, and hopefully all the Usa Builds would be infantry in Western USA, so the Jap planes can fly to mexico, then go directly to Capital……i’ll at least try

[Gargantua]

Making Italy remotely Viable, is all done through Germany pampering her, and coddling her into a fruitful exsistence.

This means you HAVE to build G1 acc and 2 trns.  THEN the following turn take GIB and land in Morocco.  Whilst using remaining subs and aircraft to keep british ship builds to a minimum.

Here is the reality of the situation.  Italy has 4 turns to make themselves a power, or they are garbage.  Germany has to put the pressure on GBR to stop them from hurting the italian baby.  It’s all done through german threat pressure of “what I can do” as opposed “what I am actually going to do.”

You HAVE to work together, and quickly, to make Italy viable enough that they can defend themselves.

After that it’s about Taking GIB back everytime or as many times as you can, with the odd destroyer block too, to buy more time for the axis.  This can also mean too, as it did for me, using German Air and Naval power to decimate early American fleet builds that end up at GIB, again to buy time.

[jeffdestroyer]

Italy bombing the the Naval base at Gib. may come into play more often in order to stop the USA from using it.  UK can repair it but its use could be denied to the USA hurting its logistics and attacks.

[Gargantua]

ya but so what? America pays $6 to repair it and it’s good to go? Even if it was 12, it’s not much of a deterrent, and you have to risk Axis Bombers :S

Now if you could scuttle bases you capture/own… that would be VERY cool.  Are we thinking of an optional rule here?

[The Dessert Fox]

With Trans jordan and egypt taken there is only one sz to block and Germany and JAPAN can help stop the USA from using Gib by using subs to hurt US IPC levels.
@Gargantua:

Making Italy remotely Viable, is all done through Germany pampering her, and coddling her into a fruitful exsistence.

This means you HAVE to build G1 acc and 2 trns.  THEN the following turn take GIB and land in Morocco.  Whilst using remaining subs and aircraft to keep british ship builds to a minimum.

Here is the reality of the situation.  Italy has 4 turns to make themselves a power, or they are garbage.  Germany has to put the pressure on GBR to stop them from hurting the italian baby.  It’s all done through german threat pressure of “what I can do” as opposed “what I am actually going to do.”
You HAVE to work together, and quickly, to make Italy viable enough that they can defend themselves.
After that it’s about Taking GIB back everytime or as many times as you can, with the odd destroyer block too, to buy more time for the axis.  This can also mean too, as it did for me, using German Air and Naval power to decimate early American fleet builds that end up at GIB, again to buy time.

Also Japan needs to help her grow by making the US notice her with the capture of Manila and preforming Pearl Harbour maybe with an eventual capture forces US into taking notice of Japan and try to regain lost territories and possibly KAF(Kill America First not Kill Anzac first) from Japan. KAF see my post in article submission about a revised KAF that could be transfered to Global

@qwertyuiop:

Take 2 italy transports with the 4 units to Gibralter, then land German planes, then italy can invade mexico, then take the german planes to mexico to support a KAF japan attack on western usa

I like the KAF idea but why would Germany land much needed planes in America?

Also Four Luftwaffe are not going to help a 1-2-3 punch on America they will probably be killed first round as the attack order on US would have to be Germany-Japan-Italy so that US can’t just rebuild units. A more viable strategy is my i]KAF see my post in article submission about a revised KAF that could be transfered to Global Which has Japan take San Fran and can start putting pressure on America the only problem is that US has three major factories now two and japan can’t deal with that

[Rorschach]

@SgtBlitz:

@qwertyuiop:

Take 2 italy transports with the 4 units to Gibralter, then land German planes, then italy can invade mexico, then take the german planes to mexico to support a KAF japan attack on western usa

One of those transports usually dies in the UK1 Taranto raid.  SZ 90 and SZ 88 can easily be blocked by the US/UK on their first/second turns.  The US can also easily counter with ARM and MECH from E US, not mention planes and bombers in range.

Wait … what?  How are the US involved in the first 3 turns at all in this?  They can’t be off the coast of Europe or Africa at all until they are at war (which happens after their non-combat move at the end of turn 3).  If they’re being brought into the war by Japan or Germany early that’s a bad thing for the axis (IMHO).

[poloplayer15]

with the new straits rules you only need to take one territory to close the med.

[jeffdestroyer]

@Gargantua:

ya but so what? America pays $6 to repair it and it’s good to go? Even if it was 12, it’s not much of a deterrent, and you have to risk Axis Bombers :S

Now if you could scuttle bases you capture/own… that would be VERY cool.  Are we thinking of an optional rule here?

I mean UK must repair the base, the US can not.  Allies can use bases, but they can not repair them.  It may stop the USA making 3 space moves due to turn order since the Naval base will not be operational when its turn occurs.  Its just something to think about.

[SgtBlitz]

@jeffdestroyer:

@Gargantua:

ya but so what? America pays $6 to repair it and it’s good to go? Even if it was 12, it’s not much of a deterrent, and you have to risk Axis Bombers :S

Now if you could scuttle bases you capture/own… that would be VERY cool.  Are we thinking of an optional rule here?

I mean UK must repair the base, the US can not.  Allies can use bases, but they can not repair them.  It may stop the USA making 3 space moves due to turn order since the Naval base will not be operational when its turn occurs.  Its just something to think about.

Yeah, that’s something I haven’t thought about.  Though, if they are already there, moving 2 spaces still lets them get away with a lot.

I really want to try a German True Neutral Crush and keep Gibraltar locked down through Spain.

[Blitchga]

I ahve drawn some of the same conclusions and so what I have been trying is push with Italy and push hard to take the Middleeast. If you can get a factory in Iraq and then a factory in Persia you can push out from their. I put almost nothing into my transport fleet which was hardly added to after Taranto happened (Germany went for a G1 Romanian Major which to be honest has proven extremely useful!) The Brits managed to retake Egypt but Italy is still at roughly 25 IPC and has for more forces between Iraq and Persia. Britain is going to need to back up soon or risk losing their forces in Egypt. The other Italian option is push further into Russia. The almost continually have Caucus and are threatening Volgogrod heavily. Germany has the Russians runnings scared from the massive force they moved in with the factory in Romania and has both an army group north and south which outnumbers the Russians allowing the Italians to get away with a little more. For Italy I chose to build up the air force rather than navy and the navy I do have is subs which are blocking Britain’s money in Egypt and also poised with two bombers to push off a Gibraltar or Morocco landing force. I have four subs and two bombers that can hit the Atlantic side of Gibraltar. Germany also has 2 bombers and 5 subs that can hit that same SZ keeping the Allies from landing in North Africa, they are instead landing in French West Africa and bring in reinforcements that way.