House sub rules

[billinjackson]

Hey gang,

for a long while (since the late 80’s) I have played Axis and Allies with a house rule for subs. Not sure if anyone else has ever done this as I am new to forums but I would be interested in your feedback.

With this rule in place, the sea zones must be numbered (not an issue in the newer versions but I had to manually do this with MB version). Here is how the rules work:

1. subs can submerge and be taken off the board and put on the side. the player with the sub has to track its movements on paper so the enemy has no clue as to where the sub is.

2. Subs announce who they are attacking in the combat movement phase (placed back on the board) and if necessary must show the opponent on paper their prior movements to make sure they are on the level.

3. As a bonus, during an opponents navel moves, should they cross the path of a sub, the sub can announce that the enemy is crossing his path and, thus, take a shot at the opponent. This has been a pretty cool rule because it raises the value of subs.

What are your thoughts and, is this an original rule or is it an existing house rule - making much less original?  :-)

Thanks all and it has been a pleasure reading your posts.

Bill

[tlasjr]

I like it, but you better trust the other guy not to cheat

[lnmajor]

Testplayed this exact idea about 10 years ago. did it for like 5 or 6 games. in theory it sounds great. definitly adds alot of realism and strategy to the game. makes subs real strong. I also used a detection roll nessicary to find subs in conjunction with this. I stopped using this rule becouse it just got too confusing and difficult to keep track of the subs, even with writing it down. now the detection roll works just fine.

[billinjackson]

@tlasjr:

I like it, but you better trust the other guy not to cheat

A beat down is the only response!  :wink:

[billinjackson]

@lnmajor:

Testplayed this exact idea about 10 years ago. did it for like 5 or 6 games. in theory it sounds great. definitly adds alot of realism and strategy to the game. makes subs real strong. I also used a detection roll nessicary to find subs in conjunction with this. I stopped using this rule becouse it just got too confusing and difficult to keep track of the subs, even with writing it down. now the detection roll works just fine.

That is true… it is easy to forget about your subs but in the end, they really make you think twice about ship movements when you know there a sub or even a wolf pack mysteriously “out there.”

Thanks for the thoughts.

[lnmajor]

It definitey makes you alocate alot of destroyers and fighters to ASW. Any of these units not used in combat are automatically used to hunt subs. The problem i found is that was making the players turn even longer than it already was. It usally takes about 1 hr to complete 1 round on average.

[billinjackson]

@lnmajor:

It definitey makes you alocate alot of destroyers and fighters to ASW. Any of these units not used in combat are automatically used to hunt subs. The problem i found is that was making the players turn even longer than it already was. It usally takes about 1 hr to complete 1 round on average.

Solid point, it does take more time.

Thanks for your thoughts

[finnman]

Cool. I would like too see the destroyer have a rule for the destroyer too find them. I might just try this next game. One last Question can subs be attacked and will they just have too  reveal them selfs for convoy disruptions.

[Arminius Germanicus]

@billinjackson:

Hey gang,

for a long while (since the late 80’s) I have played Axis and Allies with a house rule for subs. Not sure if anyone else has ever done this as I am new to forums but I would be interested in your feedback.

With this rule in place, the sea zones must be numbered (not an issue in the newer versions but I had to manually do this with MB version). Here is how the rules work:

1. subs can submerge and be taken off the board and put on the side. the player with the sub has to track its movements on paper so the enemy has no clue as to where the sub is.

2. Subs announce who they are attacking in the combat movement phase (placed back on the board) and if necessary must show the opponent on paper their prior movements to make sure they are on the level.

3. As a bonus, during an opponents navel moves, should they cross the path of a sub, the sub can announce that the enemy is crossing his path and, thus, take a shot at the opponent. This has been a pretty cool rule because it raises the value of subs.

What are your thoughts and, is this an original rule or is it an existing house rule - making much less original?  :-)

Thanks all and it has been a pleasure reading your posts.

Bill

This reminds me of some expansions pack we played with the 2nd edition.
There was a sub-chart with 3 boxes/turns,
1 Step it submerged, 2 step under water and 3 step it has to come to the surface again.
It was very funny, but keeping the subs tracked seperatly caused to many problems.

[lnmajor]

how about this?
place a roundel under a sub on the board to signify its submerged. it can only move 1 space per turn submerged. you must use ASW search roll of 1-2 to detect sub from destroyer or cruiser. surfaced sub can move 2 spaces per turn. ASW roll is 1-4 when sub is surfaced. now, on second turn, if sub remains submerged put second roundel under sub. beggining of 3rd turn submerged sub must surface for 1 turn no matter where it is. even if it has to surface strait into hostile ships and be attacked.

[billinjackson]

@finnman:

Cool. I would like too see the destroyer have a rule for the destroyer too find them. I might just try this next game. One last Question can subs be attacked and will they just have too  reveal them selfs for convoy disruptions.

I played it that if a destroyer stops in a sea zone it can declare a “search and destroy” upon which all subs submerged must announce and resolve combat and if survive, try to retreat using a role. you can also role to expose subs.

Yes, they must reveal for convoy disruptions.

The rule becomes fun when you converge several subs on a fleet, seemingly “out of nowhere” - very fun!

the key is to track your subs every move because it is easy to forget about them not being on the board.

In all, you can give this some thought and probably improve the rules.

[billinjackson]

@lnmajor:

how about this?
place a roundel under a sub on the board to signify its submerged. it can only move 1 space per turn submerged. you must use ASW search roll of 1-2 to detect sub from destroyer or cruiser. surfaced sub can move 2 spaces per turn. ASW roll is 1-4 when sub is surfaced. now, on second turn, if sub remains submerged put second roundel under sub. beggining of 3rd turn submerged sub must surface for 1 turn no matter where it is. even if it has to surface strait into hostile ships and be attacked.

not a bad idea. The one benefit to having them off the board is the surprise factor.

Great ideas though…