@SuperbattleshipYamato edited
USSR Invasion
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Long time lurker, new poster. 'Sup.
So there is a lot of talk of Sealion, and that’s fascinating. I’m more curious about how German players generally go about invading the Soviet Union.
The German/Soviet duel is the crux of most games, and it seems to be in AAE40 as well (Sealion or no Sealion). It has also gotten significantly more interesting with this new board thanks to additional territories, new bombing rules, an impassible territory, etc. Do most players go right for Leningrad? If so, do you use transports? Does anyone rush Stalingrad? It’s deeper into the USSR, but the southern territories have a higher IPC value and the complex is within blitzing distance to Moscow. If Sealion is successful do you plan for Moscow anyway in case of US liberation of London or do you go for Stalingrad/Leningrad for the quick win?
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I try to take what the Russians give me looking for mistakes and chances to slaughter infantry more so than take over Russia. Sorta like a chess game where you play to get up in piece value instead of really planning a mate. I might threaten that blitz into Moscow but really I’m just looking to slaughter a medium stack.
Given the opportunity I will take advantage of the greater German mobility. Taking Lenningrad one turn with help from my Sealion navy then sliding south.
If/when Russia turtles back into Moscow I love it! From previous games I fell in love with sending a dozen German tanks (& now a few mech inf!) into India. Russia turtles I slide into Stalingrad then further south. German armor can swing into India and eliminate an allied economy or at least tip the African balance.
My Germany looks scary offensive but is just preparing to absorb Allied landings and stalling so Japan can run across the board.
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MarkVIIIMarc, I can see an advantage of getting Russia to turtle in Moscow so you can take the higher valued southern Soviet tt (including Volgograd) in E40 or G40. In G40 if you take your tanks/mech toward India (3 turns away from Stalingrad), wouldn’t you be letting Moscow off the hook?
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Use your Baltic fleet as much as possible to land troops in Finland if you’re not attempting a Sealion. Invade the hell out of Leningrad when you can. Knock out isolated stacks of infantry if possible. Push the Reds back towards Moscow and use your ability to transport troops closer to the front/build in Leningrad to corner them. Don’t overextend yourself. Don’t commit to a major final battle in Moscow if you can wait a couple more turns to bring up reinforcements for a decisive win later.
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it depends on how the Russian player lays out his armies. if he masses them on the borders,then he is doomed from the outset–attack every single army with everything you have. if he retreats back towards Moscow and sheds one infantry on the western-most territories and then begins to fortify the Smolensk-Bryansk-Rostov line then you will have to use both guile (with Italy as your blockade destoyer) and mass (German armor,mech and dive-bombers). Go south of the marshes (where all of the valuable Russian territories are) with the 90% of the weight of your attack. Italy can destroy Russian blockading units and open the way for German armor/mech spearheads. Keep nourishing your attacks with units from that major IC you built on Romania. Fight a war of attrition and do not be afraid to lose units in offensive fighting.Keep attacking with mech,armor and air,even against superior numbers.
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As Russia, when falling back, leaving a single infantry actually hurts you, typically, you don’t have to fear the 2 movement Germans as your stack is larger, its the 17 units from S. Germany and Germany that keep you moving back. Saving 3-4 infantry is nice in Moscow.
Trading with Germany is not in Russia’s best interest I am thinking. Force Germany to build the units that its needs to take you and fight in Moscow to the bitter end. I am even debating not building artillery as I only slowed Germany one turn because of its threat. 15 artillery = 20 infantry in the big battle. Would depend on a sea lion. If Germany hits you and loses big, you can always switch to offensive builds as they have a limited amount of time to take Moscow.
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Russia should build 2 lines of units on the border. First off on the frontlines lots of guys to chew up German tanks if Germany attacks. Then on the second line have tanks and planes to either counter attack Germany or attack with the guys if Germany doesn’t attack. Russia is by no means doomed or unable to take over Europe on its own. I am not sure the skill level of the Russian players mentioned in these posts but a skilled Russian player is more then cabable of holding their own.
Oh and btw…Russia shouldn’t turtle they should attack back.
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G1: Build sub, destroyer and aircraft carrier (30 points). Land two fighters on it. Place them with the BB, Crui and transport. This will either ensure the survival of the German fleet for a couple of turns and along with assisting airplanes to delay a US invasion later on and keep the UK from quickly rebuilding its fleet thereby allowing you more time to deal with the Russians or force the UK to attack it rather than the italian fleet. An attack on the german fleet by the UK greatly favours the Germans at this stage.
G2: Depending on what the UK did, you can either invest heavily in transports to threathen a Sea lion or ignore them and build a major factory to be placed in Poland along with mech infantry and tanks to be placed in Western and Eastern Germany.
G3: Build infantry and artillery (5 each) in Poland. Move mech and tank builds to USSR border.
I3: Attack a Russian territory with a tank to take it. Russians can’t counterattack till R4. Italy can use the IPCs. A possible larger stack of Italian units might come in extremely handy as well. They can finish the job a German force started later on.
G4: Attack USSR from Poland and Romania. Build major factory in Norway. Place tanks and mech infantry in Germany, art and inf in Poland for follow-up attacks. Land your airforce in Finland to guard it against counter-attack (Russians are stronger than the Germans initially in the North if you move some units from Leningrad to Karelia and reinforce them with some previously built aircraft and tanks. The Germans cannot afford to lose Norway this early in the game against the Russians (German NO’s, 2 of which involve control of Norway, USSR NO’s, which would give them 3 additional IPCs for each original German controlled territory, so 3 for Finland and 3 for Norway. Keeping them from attacking Finland by landing the entire Luftwaffe there will probably keep them from trying. Building a major in Norway will give the Germans the upper hand in the North. Mkae sure to kill the Russian BB and tra on a previous turn. They might otherwise land in Norway using this transport.
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Major IC won’t fit in Poland.
I’m not convinced about the need to build a major IC in Norway, especially if you have all those transports.
I’d rather build my stuff in Romania, where they can more easily help defend Italy and attack the most valuable Soviet territories.
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Major IC won’t fit in Poland.
I’m not convinced about the need to build a major IC in Norway, especially if you have all those transports.
I’d rather build my stuff in Romania, where they can more easily help defend Italy and attack the most valuable Soviet territories.
Why not? Poland is worth 3 points, if I’m not mistaken…
As for the transports, AFAIK Germany only starts out with one.
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Major IC won’t fit in Poland.
I’m not convinced about the need to build a major IC in Norway, especially if you have all those transports.
I’d rather build my stuff in Romania, where they can more easily help defend Italy and attack the most valuable Soviet territories.
Why not? Poland is worth 3 points, if I’m not mistaken…
As for the transports, AFAIK Germany only starts out with one.
Checked it. You are right. poland is indeed only worth two IPCs and hence a major IC indeed won’t fit. Well, just place it in Slovakia/Hungary then. The theory still holds true.
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The Germans cannot afford to lose Norway this early in the game against the Russians (German NO’s, 2 of which involve control of Norway, USSR NO’s, which would give them 3 additional IPCs for each original German controlled territory, so 3 for Finland and 3 for Norway.
Finland is not an originally controlled German territory. Originally controlled territories are those that have the country roundels printed on the map.
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And dont forget the USSR NO requires that they control all their original territories as well. Having Norway doesn’t matter if the germans even have bessarabia or east Poland.
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Wild Bill,
sometimes I get my stack of tanks and mech inf close to Moscow and then they’re not enough. As my lines have stretched out Russia fell back and built strength.
Them 10, 15 units of mine can’t attack Moscow. They can however capture another capital, India. At least they can turtle India back into itself when suddenly a country with an income of 16 or less if Japan has been doing its job has two enemies.
What a few turns earlier might have been a Japanese attack on India that failed has become an attack against an India weakened by the Germans or oddly enough a German attack.
Oddly enough no Russian player has ever chased my German tanks to India. If they do I would slow them by dropping a mech infantry behind me. Sometimes Germany has an empty territory in front of them and really could get the jump on the Russians.
If Russia attacks Germany fine. They have a long march from Russia back towards Berlin. It takes Germany 2 turns, two squares, to recover 50 pointsish of units on the eastern front. Plus it has fallen back towards its supply base getting stronger that way also while Russia suddenly is further from the complexes building their new units.
I rambled, I’m sorry
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I have thought last night of a new plan to take down Russia.
G1: buy 1 minor IC, place it on Romania and 1 AC to protect the Baltic fleet (29 IPC)
G2: buy upgrade for the Romanian IC (you can also wait until G2) and 3 transports for it, placing them on SZ100. Also buy 1-2 transports for the Baltic. Spend the rest on infantry/art.
G3: buy 1 AC for SZ100 and the rest all inf/art/armor.
Declare war on Russia and strike everywhere:
- The fleet on SZ100 can hit Rostov, Ukraine and Caucasus, all 2 IPC territories and forcing Russia to take them back or see its production drop.
- The fleet on SZ113 will probably have to sink the Russian fleet on SZ112 (Russia should have moved it there to block an amphibious assault on Novgorod) before attacking Leningrad.
- The border territories should be lightly defended (1 inf each) and hopefully Russia has pulled back any stack on Western Ukraine to Bryansk to deal with the Black Sea landings, allowing for German units to converge on Eastern Poland.
- G can also drop the 6 units right into the Caucasus, outproducing Russian production on Volvograd and threatening to take it or to move into Persia.
This requires a substantial investment by G but completely opens Russia to multiple attacks. Then it is a matter of G choosing which route to take: the northern one, focusing on taking Leningrad while harassing the Russians on Rostov/Ukraine/Caucasus with landings and slowly bleeding them; or the southern route, going through Ukraine and to Bryansk to directly threaten Moscow and cutoff Volvograd.
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The Germans cannot afford to lose Norway this early in the game against the Russians (German NO’s, 2 of which involve control of Norway, USSR NO’s, which would give them 3 additional IPCs for each original German controlled territory, so 3 for Finland and 3 for Norway.
Finland is not an originally controlled German territory. Originally controlled territories are those that have the country roundels printed on the map.
I stand corrected. Too much historical awareness can sometimes get in the way when playing A&A :-D
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I have thought last night of a new plan to take down Russia.
G1: buy 1 minor IC, place it on Romania and 1 AC to protect the Baltic fleet (29 IPC)
G2: buy upgrade for the Romanian IC (you can also wait until G2) and 3 transports for it, placing them on SZ100. Also buy 1-2 transports for the Baltic. Spend the rest on infantry/art.
G3: buy 1 AC for SZ100 and the rest all inf/art/armor.
Declare war on Russia and strike everywhere:
- The fleet on SZ100 can hit Rostov, Ukraine and Caucasus, all 2 IPC territories and forcing Russia to take them back or see its production drop.
- The fleet on SZ113 will probably have to sink the Russian fleet on SZ112 (Russia should have moved it there to block an amphibious assault on Novgorod) before attacking Leningrad.
- The border territories should be lightly defended (1 inf each) and hopefully Russia has pulled back any stack on Western Ukraine to Bryansk to deal with the Black Sea landings, allowing for German units to converge on Eastern Poland.
- G can also drop the 6 units right into the Caucasus, outproducing Russian production on Volvograd and threatening to take it or to move into Persia.
This requires a substantial investment by G but completely opens Russia to multiple attacks. Then it is a matter of G choosing which route to take: the northern one, focusing on taking Leningrad while harassing the Russians on Rostov/Ukraine/Caucasus with landings and slowly bleeding them; or the southern route, going through Ukraine and to Bryansk to directly threaten Moscow and cutoff Volvograd.
Yesterday we played a game and my friend (playing Axis) build 3 Transports and a CV in SZ100. I told him before that maybe this would be a good idea. In the end it wasn´t a good idea b/c he failed to make further use of it. He took Leningrad , so to split his army was a huge mistake. Only way is a fast Blitzkrieg (right towards Moscow) ignoring Leningrad and Stalingrad. If the Russian player dont see what is coming you will take moscow, if he does than he has to abandon nearly all other territories to face this thread.
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@Arminius:
I have thought last night of a new plan to take down Russia.
G1: buy 1 minor IC, place it on Romania and 1 AC to protect the Baltic fleet (29 IPC)
G2: buy upgrade for the Romanian IC (you can also wait until G2) and 3 transports for it, placing them on SZ100. Also buy 1-2 transports for the Baltic. Spend the rest on infantry/art.
G3: buy 1 AC for SZ100 and the rest all inf/art/armor.
Declare war on Russia and strike everywhere:
- The fleet on SZ100 can hit Rostov, Ukraine and Caucasus, all 2 IPC territories and forcing Russia to take them back or see its production drop.
- The fleet on SZ113 will probably have to sink the Russian fleet on SZ112 (Russia should have moved it there to block an amphibious assault on Novgorod) before attacking Leningrad.
- The border territories should be lightly defended (1 inf each) and hopefully Russia has pulled back any stack on Western Ukraine to Bryansk to deal with the Black Sea landings, allowing for German units to converge on Eastern Poland.
- G can also drop the 6 units right into the Caucasus, outproducing Russian production on Volvograd and threatening to take it or to move into Persia.
This requires a substantial investment by G but completely opens Russia to multiple attacks. Then it is a matter of G choosing which route to take: the northern one, focusing on taking Leningrad while harassing the Russians on Rostov/Ukraine/Caucasus with landings and slowly bleeding them; or the southern route, going through Ukraine and to Bryansk to directly threaten Moscow and cutoff Volvograd.
Yesterday we played a game and my friend (playing Axis) build 3 Transports and a CV in SZ100. I told him before that maybe this would be a good idea. In the end it wasn´t a good idea b/c he failed to make further use of it. He took Leningrad , so to split his army was a huge mistake. Only way is a fast Blitzkrieg (right towards Moscow) ignoring Leningrad and Stalingrad. If the Russian player dont see what is coming you will take moscow, if he does than he has to abandon nearly all other territories to face this thread.
When did he build the IC? G1 or later?
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In our Game on G1 a Minor IC in Romania, told him that an Upgrade in G2 would Be best idea, but he build Units for France instead (at this Time imo unessecary).
He attacked on g3 and could only use the Full Transport capacity once. Wasted Money…
He also Moved to Leningrad… Next mistake imoI think moving Straight to moscow with One Big Army is the Key.
While you gathering troops in a
defensive Position (2nd Stack) in East poland.
I think that can really work, but only if you surprise the russian,
so that He isnt able to Fall back (i assume that russian Player will Form 2-3 stacks in Second line) with enough troops to defend moscow,
or He is Forced to Attack the German Stack Rolling to moscow ;) -
what the German Player wants is for Russia to try and stop your advance in all areas. if they do that then they’re too thin and are easy to open a hole in the communist lines. also i personally hit Leningrad first for 2 major reasons. 1 i want a factory that’s close to the front and that can cause major problems. 2 the bulk of the Russian army is focused there and if destroyed severely cripples the soviet war effort.
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