Question about subs

[Gravy]

Can battleships, cruisers and subs attack a stack of enemy subs.  Does a destroyer have to be present to attack just enemy subsd with your ships. 
Also, I’m attacking your lone sub with 2 of my own subs.  Do we all get a “first strike” ability since there are no destroyers involved.
Sub rules get a little confusing at times.  I know you need a destroyer in order for planes to attack them but you don’t need a destroyer for lets say your battleship to attack an enemy sub do you?

[kaufschtick]

@Gravy:

Can battleships, cruisers and subs attack a stack of enemy subs.  Does a destroyer have to be present to attack just enemy subsd with your ships. 
Also, I’m attacking your lone sub with 2 of my own subs.  Do we all get a “first strike” ability since there are no destroyers involved.
Sub rules get a little confusing at times.  I know you need a destroyer in order for planes to attack them but you don’t need a destroyer for lets say your battleship to attack an enemy sub do you?

Without an attacking DD, the defending subs have the option to submerge before the battle starts.

So yes, the BBs, CAs & SSs can attack, but the defending subs can refuse battle and submerge at their option.

Hope that helps!

[Gravy]

Thanks for the help Kaufs.  By the way, I really think the global game will actually leave Japan a little weaker than the allies.  The threat of Russia in Manchuria will make all the difference.  Right now my buddy and I play with a 12 bid for the allies and the games are very close…just enough to balance the game…actually he has beaten mw twice now with the allies bid at 12.

As the allies I came really close to beating him as Japan a number of times, they were tight games that with a few more better roles in a few last battles…I would have won so we decided to just put a slight bid in for the allies.

The key with the allies is taking advantage of consecutive turns in a row with their planes.  Take a DEI Island with the Americans and then sending in the British and ANZAC fighters to defend it…tough to take back for Japan and they lose their NO.  Also, build American bombers every turn and put them in Queensland, they are deadly!!  Anyway, rhanks for clarifying the sub question.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Gravy:

Thanks for the help Kaufs.  By the way, I really think the global game will actually leave Japan a little weaker than the allies.  The threat of Russia in Manchuria will make all the difference.  Right now my buddy and I play with a 12 bid for the allies and the games are very close…just enough to balance the game…actually he has beaten mw twice now with the allies bid at 12.

As the allies I came really close to beating him as Japan a number of times, they were tight games that with a few more better roles in a few last battles…I would have won so we decided to just put a slight bid in for the allies.

The key with the allies is taking advantage of consecutive turns in a row with their planes.  Take a DEI Island with the Americans and then sending in the British and ANZAC fighters to defend it…tough to take back for Japan and they lose their NO.  Also, build American bombers every turn and put them in Queensland, they are deadly!!  Anyway, rhanks for clarifying the sub question.

For the bid, do you do 4 infantry in Yunnan?

[Gravy]

intersting enough he always buys a destroyer in Hawaii and a mech infantry in Burma.  The destroyer makes a huge difference since the Jap player cannot hit that transport with a sub from japan.  When I play the allies next I’m going with an 8 bid only…i’ll buy the destroyer in Hawaii as well.

I’ve come very close to beating his J1 attck many times without a bid so the 8 might be all I need.

[kaufschtick]

@Gravy:

Thanks for the help Kaufs.  By the way, I really think the global game will actually leave Japan a little weaker than the allies.  The threat of Russia in Manchuria will make all the difference.  Right now my buddy and I play with a 12 bid for the allies and the games are very close…just enough to balance the game…actually he has beaten mw twice now with the allies bid at 12.

As the allies I came really close to beating him as Japan a number of times, they were tight games that with a few more better roles in a few last battles…I would have won so we decided to just put a slight bid in for the allies.

The key with the allies is taking advantage of consecutive turns in a row with their planes.  Take a DEI Island with the Americans and then sending in the British and ANZAC fighters to defend it…tough to take back for Japan and they lose their NO.  Also, build American bombers every turn and put them in Queensland, they are deadly!!  Anyway, rhanks for clarifying the sub question.

We like immediate 40 because it doesn’t change the OOB set up at all, and is the only change from the OOB game. There are no other changes. The ole’ KISS meathod.

Bids effects can vary widely from game to game, and at some point, a particular bid may be found that imbalances the game yet again. Then you start the process all over again.

Good luck with your meathod, we’re going to stick to immeduiate 40 for now. And yes, hopefully AAG will change the overall situation, but for those wishing to play a purely pacific AA game, the pain goes on…  :wink:

@calvinhobbesliker:

For the bid, do you do 4 infantry in Yunnan?

That would be a huge move, IMHO….

[calvinhobbesliker]

I dislike changing the setup permanently since it also changes the G40 setup, which may be balanced

[allweneedislove]

immediate ipc is good but not as good as using bid. my quick comparison below shows some of the reasons why

immediate 40ipc helps to balance game but with more play you will find 40ipc does not perfectly balance the game.
bidding makes the game perfectly balanced for every playgroup.

40ipc gives the usa player some variability.
bid makes the game more variable as players can give any power(s) ipcs and place them in many territories over the whole board.

40ipc only changes one rule
bid only adds one rule which has been used for all of axis and allies history; classic, revised, aa50, aa42

@kaufschtick:

We like immediate 40 because it doesn’t change the OOB set up at all, and is the only change from the OOB game. There are no other changes. The ole’ KISS meathod.

bid is also simple. only one rule addition aswell. with bid you add a rule before the game starts, and no rules are changed after the game starts.

@kaufschtick:

Bids effects can vary widely from game to game, and at some point, a particular bid may be found that imbalances the game yet again. Then you start the process all over again.

the beauty of a bid system is that it can change from one game to the next untill your group finds the perfect balance. if a particular bid is found to imbalance the game, you can be sure that the next game your opponent will bid lower. the ironic thing is that the immediate 40ipc is a system that will soon be found to be imbalanced(even if it is slightly uneven maybe usa needs 35ipc or 43ipc).

@kaufschtick:

Good luck with your meathod, we’re going to stick to immeduiate 40 for now.

i hope you try using a bid. i think you will get even more enjoyment out of your games.

[lnmajor]

this has gone off topic, shouldnt this this be moved to its appropriate thread?
what about it IL?

[Krieghund]

@Gravy:

Also, I’m attacking your lone sub with 2 of my own subs.  Do we all get a “first strike” ability since there are no destroyers involved.

Yes.

@Gravy:

I know you need a destroyer in order for planes to attack them but you don’t need a destroyer for lets say your battleship to attack an enemy sub do you?

No.