This topic has been moved to House Rules.
Is AAP40 broken?
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If your answer is no(or you think the game is broken in favor of the allies, like this person: http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2385), please explain your allied strategy
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Perhaps it is broken, but it’s fairly easily fixed. Simply make the 40IPCs come into play as soon as the war starts. So, were there a J1 attack, the US would start with 57 IPCs, not 17. Though this isn’t playing by the rules, I’d think trying it might make the game more fun.
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The people who voted no should explain an allied strat that counters Kaufshtick’s singapore strat
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In one game i played as the British, J1 started with Japan taking Celebes and of course the Philippines with the two trans from sz 6, and the one from sz 33. Already Japan was placed in a good position to easily take the D.E.I. by round 2. So I decided to experiment by purchasing an airbase in the first round. I moved the British Battleship, Cruiser and Destroyer to the sz surrounding Borneo. I then piled the 3 fighter and tac-bomber on borneo, as well as the fighter from Burma. By placing the air base on Borneo i was too much of a threat to ignore, the following turn Japan responded with its usually massive fleet. The outcome was deadly for both me and Japan….What happened? because i was able to destroy a huge chunk of japans navy this gave the US player a good start, but at the expense of my air-force.
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In one game i played as the British, J1 started with Japan taking Celebes and of course the Philippines with the two trans from sz 6, and the one from sz 33. Already Japan was placed in a good position to easily take the D.E.I. by round 2. So I decided to experiment by purchasing an airbase in the first round. I moved the British Battleship, Cruiser and Destroyer to the sz surrounding Borneo. I then piled the 3 fighter and tac-bomber on borneo, as well as the fighter from Burma. By placing the air base on Borneo i was too much of a threat to ignore, the following turn Japan responded with its usually massive fleet. The outcome was deadly for both me and Japan….What happened? because i was able to destroy a huge chunk of japans navy this gave the US player a good start, but at the expense of my air-force.
Isn’t the Brit battleship killed on the 1st turn with the Formosa fighter and 2-3 bombers?
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In one game i played as the British, J1 started with Japan taking Celebes and of course the Philippines with the two trans from sz 6, and the one from sz 33. Already Japan was placed in a good position to easily take the D.E.I. by round 2. So I decided to experiment by purchasing an airbase in the first round. I moved the British Battleship, Cruiser and Destroyer to the sz surrounding Borneo. I then piled the 3 fighter and tac-bomber on borneo, as well as the fighter from Burma. By placing the air base on Borneo i was too much of a threat to ignore, the following turn Japan responded with its usually massive fleet. The outcome was deadly for both me and Japan….What happened? because i was able to destroy a huge chunk of japans navy this gave the US player a good start, but at the expense of my air-force.
I assume you scrambled everything, right?
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My battleship happened to survive, ya i know :-o. Ever since the Japan player never let me keep the BB. Yup i scrambled, it was the only way the plan would work.
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My battleship happened to survive, ya i know :-o. Ever since the Japan player never let me keep the BB. Yup i scrambled, it was the only way the plan would work.
So do you think its broken?
In that game, did Japan take more ipc’s of losses than the UK?
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To be honest i think it depends entirely on the people who play it. An experienced AA player can easily fall in love with Japan’s setup and us its air force to its advantage. While new player would more than likely be cautious and explore possibilities with all that power. But to answer your question i say yes and no. Yes because if Japan is played right the entire Asian continent can be turned orange, while at the same time able to keep the US at bay. No because if mistakes are made Japan can be spread too thin and can be an easy target…The game i was referring to happened to take place within the first 2 weeks of its release, so different strategies were still on the board. Because of its set back in the D.E.I. Japan was never able to recover naval wise, the US navy was able to isolate Japan on its own island several turns later.
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To be honest i think it depends entirely on the people who play it. An experienced AA player can easily fall in love with Japan’s setup and us its air force to its advantage. While new player would more than likely be cautious and explore possibilities with all that power. But to answer your question i say yes and no. Yes because if Japan is played right the entire Asian continent can be turned orange, while at the same time able to keep the US at bay. No because if mistakes are made Japan can be spread too thin and can be an easy target…The game i was referring to happened to take place within the first 2 weeks of its release, so different strategies were still on the board. Because of its set back in the D.E.I. Japan was never able to recover naval wise, the US navy was able to isolate Japan on its own island several turns later.
Then let me ask you a different question: Kaufshtick proposed a strat where Japan takes the Phil, DEI, and Malaya by turn 3 and builds a major factory there on turn 4 and keeps its fleet in Z37, from which it can reach all SZ around Australia except Z62. This allows Japan to defend the DEI and Phil until its income after capturing India, 78, is greater than the combined income of the US, 55, and ANZAC, 15. After India falls, Japan focuses on taking Sydney. What is your conter to this strat?
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That’s a very interesting strategy that i have not come up against while playing as the allies. My counter strategy would be my normal one when playing as the US, “Cutting the head off the snake.” As the US player i always focus on Japan and sz 6. If such an incident would occur as you mentioned i would assume Japan would already be spread thin, unless they are already spending those 70ipcs. My strategy would be to lure the Japanese to attack me by threatening them with naval forces in the north Pacific. Capturing Iwo Jima and building a air base their is my all time favorite. But to be honest i would not know how this would really work in your scenario.
For those of you who think the game is broken my buddies and I have developed two house rules that greatly change the way the game is played
1. the idea was taken from this forum and that is if Japan does a J1 attack to automatically give the US its 40ipcs.
What this does is it does not given Japan (what I call a J1 cushion). In a normal J1 attack Japan can do as it wishes without fear of a US navy attack for another one or two turns. By giving the US its 40ipcs right away the US can start construction on another naval task force. while rushing its starting navy out to sea.2.The second rule is more like a National Advantage but it has changed Japan’s strategy in Mainland Asian in our games, and that rule is Chinese Partisans. The rule goes as such “Any territory with a Chinese symbol, even those under the starting control of Japan are subject to this rule. At the end of Japan’s income phase any Chinese territory that does not have at least one Japanese land or air unit in it is automatically given control to China, and 1 Chinese infantry is placed there.”…What this has done to our games has been pretty remarkable. instead of Blitzing all through china and leaving it empty the Japanese player is now subject to leave at least one unit behind! unless of course they don’t mind handing it over to the partisans, but anyways this offers some what of a cushion to British Mainland forces and helps keep Japan from over taking all of Asian within a matter of turns.
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That’s a very interesting strategy that i have not come up against while playing as the allies. My counter strategy would be my normal one when playing as the US, “Cutting the head off the snake.” As the US player i always focus on Japan and sz 6. If such an incident would occur as you mentioned i would assume Japan would already be spread thin, unless they are already spending those 70ipcs. My strategy would be to lure the Japanese to attack me by threatening them with naval forces in the north Pacific. Capturing Iwo Jima and building a air base their is my all time favorite. But to be honest i would not know how this would really work in your scenario.
For those of you who think the game is broken my buddies and I have developed two house rules that greatly change the way the game is played
1. the idea was taken from this forum and that is if Japan does a J1 attack to automatically give the US its 40ipcs.
What this does is it does not given Japan (what I call a J1 cushion). In a normal J1 attack Japan can do as it wishes without fear of a US navy attack for another one or two turns. By giving the US its 40ipcs right away the US can start construction on another naval task force. while rushing its starting navy out to sea.2.The second rule is more like a National Advantage but it has changed Japan’s strategy in Mainland Asian in our games, and that rule is Chinese Partisans. The rule goes as such “Any territory with a Chinese symbol, even those under the starting control of Japan are subject to this rule. At the end of Japan’s income phase any Chinese territory that does not have at least one Japanese land or air unit in it is automatically given control to China, and 1 Chinese infantry is placed there.”…What this has done to our games has been pretty remarkable. instead of Blitzing all through china and leaving it empty the Japanese player is now subject to leave at least one unit behind! unless of course they don’t mind handing it over to the partisans, but anyways this offers some what of a cushion to British Mainland forces and helps keep Japan from over taking all of Asian within a matter of turns.
I think Z6 is defended by jap fighters and destroyers which delay until Sydney falls. Kauf pointed out that Japan has more moey than the US on all but the 2nd turn, but 1/3-1/2 of that money is actually spent on land units to kill China and India, most of which will be useless after India and China’s fall; thus the US is spending more on navy.
I also like taking Iwo. Did you notice that bombers in the Western US can hit Z6 and land in Iwo?
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hmm now that i look at my board i notice they can. man that can come in handy, well like i said i would have to be put in that situation to see the outcome of my strategy. With the house i listed above the fall of Asia is usually delayed due to the partisan rule. but that still does not stop the fall of the D.E.I. or the blockades put against the U.K.
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hmm now that i look at my board i notice they can. man that can come in handy, well like i said i would have to be put in that situation to see the outcome of my strategy. With the house i listed above the fall of Asia is usually delayed due to the partisan rule. but that still does not stop the fall of the D.E.I. or the blockades put against the U.K.
How about instead of them getting an automatic inf(may be too strong), they can build an inf in an empty jap tt like it was theirs, and they get to take that tt if Japan doesn’t attack that inf.
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The counter to the Major Factory is to simply use the chain method with the US. Your fleet, and fleet purchases simply move from LA, to Pearl, to SZ 54 or 63. Then you snipe DEI islands when you can. China and the UK do a massive push to hold the burma road open as long as possible, moving all UK units in that direction along with 4 mech inf purchase on turn 1. If worred about a Jap airstrike against china’s starting force, simply put your UK planes with them which will result in japan loosing a ton of airpower. That means at the end of allied turn 2 you have a stack of around 20 units on Yunnan, and china is building 2-4 inf a turn. When needed this stack moves to Burma (chinamen too) to stall japan as long as possible. ANZAC builds a combination of transports and subs, using them to harass the japan fleet by sniping islands and blockade raiding, or using DDs to block for the US fleet. Using the major IC means it will take japan until turn 5, more likely 7 with china helping in burma, to take down India. Until then, the allies have a significant IPC advantage, along with the US producing almost nothing but navy while japan is placing 10 ground units a turn. Also, the US forces near ANZAC allow them to focus on annoying boats, instead of ground forces. It can also be a good idea to take caroline islands, as a japan navy in SZ 37 happens to be out of range. Basing from caroline islands allows the US fleet to threaten : Phil, 3 DEI islands, SZ 6(including the mainland japan and a korea factory threat), and Iwo, and Oki, along with the rest of the china coastline. Typically Car can be taken the same turn Malaya is taken if the IJN use there entire fleet.
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The person who came up with that says to put 4 ftrs and 4 tacs on truk so that the US has to bring enough power to attack those planes on both the zone and the island. He also implied that the Jap fleet can easily counterattack any DEI
If the US fleet is at Z54 on the 2nd turn, can’t Japan attack it if it unifies its fleet at Java or Phil? Then, you’d have to use the ANZAC DD as a block
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The person who came up with that says to put 4 ftrs and 4 tacs on truk so that the US has to bring enough power to attack those planes on both the zone and the island. He also implied that the Jap fleet can easily counterattack any DEI
If the US fleet is at Z54 on the 2nd turn, can’t Japan attack it if it unifies its fleet at Java or Phil? Then, you’d have to use the ANZAC DD as a block
Yes jap can counter attack DEI, thats why anzac does it unless US can hold it, simply to trade ANZAC units for Jap units. Yes you use ANZAC to block, then to later remove the block, or simply station off of New Zealand. There is an art to doing it to ensure it costs japan more than it costs you. As far as Truk, if the US cannot figure out how to kill 8 planes they have a problem. Assuming the US keeps its beginning fleet, minus the transport, within turn 4 the US should be able to take that without any scary casualties, remember you don’t have to build more carriers to use your starting planes, at least not more than 1. The main point though, against that, is to simply build the US up while the rest of the allies whittle japan down a tad so that the US has naval superiority to take the DEI when japan takes india. Japan putting 8 planes on Truk is a great thing for the allies, thats nearly 1/3rd of her airforce tied down doing nothing! When japan is spending 30+ IPCs a turn on the mainland, plus losing a destroyer or transport here and there from ANZAC, and china/UK have a 20-30 unit stack stalling them, its not impossible to do. Japan starts with 1 more BB, 1 more Cru, 2 more AC, 3 more DD, and 1 more SS than the US. Thats 20+12+32+24+6=94 IPCs more in boats than the US. Also, keep in mind that ACs, BBs, and Crus lose dollar for dollar to subs and DDs, and it is not that large of a hurdle to overcome in 7 turns. Now yes, it is true japan can just build carriers for her planes, it is also true that killing japans fleet does not win you the game in this situation, taking the DEI does. Or taking Manchuria/Korea depending.
This strat by japan does not overly break the game, the India crush strat, depending on dice rolls, does. And why would you put 4 figs, and 4 tacs on truk, 8 figs would give you more defense, just pair the tacs up on land with the tanks your building.
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The J3 India crush?
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China and the UK do a massive push to hold the burma road open as long as possible, moving all UK units in that direction along with 4 mech inf purchase on turn 1. If worred about a Jap airstrike against china’s starting force, simply put your UK planes with them which will result in japan loosing a ton of airpower.
That’s your fatal flaw there. The key for Britian to survive until at least 8 or 9 is their airforce. If those planes come out to play, the Japanese player goes after them with everything. I mean it too. If those British planes go to China on turn one, every Japanese asset capable of reaching that zone will attack it. With the British planes gone, India can be taken via amphibious assault much faster than otherwise. The Japanese have the air assets to do this too. The Japanese can commit enough air to that fight to vaporize the entire Allied force in two rounds of combat. The Japanese can get 5 fighters, 5 dive bombers, 3 bombers, 2 infantry & 1 mech into that fight vs 6 or 7 (at best) Chinese troops, and the 5 British planes.
Round one would average 7/8 Japanese hits vs 4/5 for the allies. When it’s all said and done, it’s very likely that the Japanese will have only lost a number of a/c equal to that of the British, which is game, IMHO.
The Japanese are going to still be able to take the DEI on J2, Singapore on J3, build a major IC there on J4, place troops on J5, then assault India directly via amphibious assault on J6. At least two turns earlier than they would have otherwise.
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China and the UK do a massive push to hold the burma road open as long as possible, moving all UK units in that direction along with 4 mech inf purchase on turn 1. If worred about a Jap airstrike against china’s starting force, simply put your UK planes with them which will result in japan loosing a ton of airpower.
That’s your fatal flaw there. The key for Britian to survive until at least 8 or 9 is their airforce. If those planes come out to play, the Japanese player goes after them with everything. I mean it too. If those British planes go to China on turn one, every Japanese asset capable of reaching that zone will attack it. With the British planes gone, India can be taken via amphibious assault much faster than otherwise. The Japanese have the air assets to do this too. The Japanese can commit enough air to that fight to vaporize the entire Allied force in two rounds of combat. The Japanese can get 5 fighters, 5 dive bombers, 3 bombers, 2 infantry & 1 mech into that fight vs 6 or 7 (at best) Chinese troops, and the 5 British planes.
Round one would average 7/8 Japanese hits vs 4/5 for the allies. When it’s all said and done, it’s very likely that the Japanese will have only lost a number of a/c equal to that of the British, which is game, IMHO.
The Japanese are going to still be able to take the DEI on J2, Singapore on J3, build a major IC there on J4, place troops on J5, then assault India directly via amphibious assault on J6. At least two turns earlier than they would have otherwise.
But kauf, there can easily be 8 UK inf, 1 art from India and Malaya. Then it’s Allies: 15@2, 1@3, 5@4; Japan 3@1 5@3 8@4:
Allies get 9 hits, japan 8(by rounding). Allies left with 7 troops, 6 planes; Japan with 7 planes. They lose
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