Glad you can play with your boys. Lucky man!
Merry Christmas , Worsham.
Naval Base in Alaska wins the game
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@Col:
From reading most of your responses, I’d like to know what happens to your Japanese fleet when you attack the US one at the start of the game (or even mid game)? I’ve always won with mine, but what I have left is pathtic at best and normally wiped out the next turn by US bombers.
Jap attack turn 2 example :
The Pearl Habour Operation against a concentrated US-Fleet starts from the CVs at SZ 31 with 6 FTs/TacBombers, supported by 6 FTs/TacBombers from Caroline Islands and 1 or 2 Bombers, 1 BB and 1 - 2 DDs.
You take the Aircrafts from SZ 31 as casualties (or land them later on Marshall Islands if enough of them survive) and place the Caroline Island Aircrafts on the carriers.
At the end the battle, US has no ships left over. All scrambled Aircrafts from Hawaii are shot down.
Ther is a dammaged Jap BB and three full Jap CVs in SZ 26.
How many US-Bombers left? Max.!3! plus the production from 22 IPCs of turn US-Turn 1 at the west coast.
This will be a funny Doolittle Run. :-D
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I think this may work against a J1 that focuses heavily in the DEI area, but if they come at the US with any significant force you will be hard pressed to pull it off.
The real kicker though would be if the US could hold Korea for 2 turns, long enough to put a major factory on it and pump out a crapton of ground units.
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The only real advantage in using Alaska would be to allow you to build a small factory there (which you cannot do in Hawaii). you would then need a naval base there to reach Japan in one turn. I did this as U.S. during the first few turns while JN was mopping up china. My plan was to build 3 transports or destroyers a turn in Alaska (you get to pick from 2 different sea zones to deploy in, which is nice) and shuttle mech infantry and tanks from Western USA to invade Japan with. The strategy was sound, but as was mentioned early in this thread, its a dead giveaway and not a surprise to the Japanese player at all. He can easily put pressure on the U.S. by having a large invading fleet near the home islands up north and you might end up loosing and having to reconquer the factory and port you spent so much money on. I think that it would help to have an airfield on the Aleutians so you could lodge your fleet there for some Scramble defense help from airpower, but you can do the same thing in Hawaii. It does require Japan to divert forces from the south (Sydney) and block another sea zone to keep the homeland for being invaded. Next time I do this strategy I will want to wait until the U.S. has the wartime economy and can plop everything down at once without having to worry about only having enough fleet to cover Hawaii/Western US or Alaska but not both.
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Since the naval base from Hawaii has the same reach as Alaska would, it’s completely useless to build a naval base there.
The difference here is that coming from Alaska, you do NOT have to enter SZ 6, you can go though SZ 5. This means that either Japan has to split its defending fleet to cover both SZ 5 & 6 or leave the door to Japan or the mainland open.
With the US wartime economy, minus the PI islands, the US could drop the naval base, 5 tanks, 5 Inf and 5 transports with just two turns of income. It would then take one turn to move every thing up to Alaska after placing it on the board. So, this move would give Japan a two turn notice to react to it. Of course this timing could change depending on what Japan does to the US in the opening rounds, but I think it is still a VERY viable strategy for the US even if Japan wipes out the US fleet in turns 1-4. If that happens on turn 4, the US can have a fleet and all of the above ready around turn 7… fast enough that Japan will still be fighting hard against China/UK (assuming the UK/Assuies did not attack Japan to bring them in the war solo).
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Ok, so it takes 4 US turns to setup, and requires 2 full turns Income and starting income for US. without adding a single combat naval combat vessel on the board, or threatening anything BUT Japan.
All to take Korea, which, ok if 4 inf is too little, keep 6,in MAN to counter.
Or, even better, since the US has not added a single combat ship, reserve a few of your own ships to JUST defend the Japan Sz.
As long as the US is committed to this, inf in Man, or a small navy supported by air, with a transport or 2. inf,lOBLITERATE the landed tanks and inf, Expose the US fleet which is 2 turns away from even getting Back to Alaska, and detrimentally slow down the Allies.
Genious.
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What would be genius is if people actually read what others typed. This move only takes 2 turns of US wartime economy income and 2 turns to setup.
1.Turn X the US enters the war.
2.Turn X+2 the US spends 95 ICUs (or breaks it up into two purchases over two turns to disguise what it is doing some what) on 5 Transports, 5 Tanks, 5 Inf and a naval base.
3. Turn X+3 the US moves the invasion fleet to Alaska
4. Turn X+4 the US hits Korea.That leaves all the income from every turn before X as well as the income from turns X+3 and X+4 to do whatever you want with.
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So the US takes Korea. Then what? I guess my question is what’s the end objective here? A landing in Japan? Or a diversion?
The move is clearly telegraphed with the placement of the navy base in Alaska. Plenty of time for the Japanese player to redeploy significant air (and also presumably) naval forces to within striking range to eradicate the landing forces and/or fleet.
And maybe Im missing the point, but why the need for the naval base? You can get from SF to Alaska in one move, and then Alaska to SZ 5 in one move without the base. The fleet movement telegraphs the move less than the naval purchase assuming the end point is SZ 5 and not SZ 6.
Is the base simply for reaching SZ 6? Or is this move centered on a Korean landing? If the latter, then you don’t need the naval base.
Sounds interesting in theory, but I wonder what the practical effects would be in the South Pacific and Hawaii. Seems like you’d be leaving Hawaii fairly vulnerable, and ANZAC on their own - not exactly the best scenario.
I admit, I only have a few AAP40 games under my belt at this point, but this seems a little too “novel” to actually work.
Though I could see the merit in an AK naval base intended solely for harassment purposes.
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I think you would be much better served by just building up US fleet and if a Korea drop looks like it would work well just move said fleet to SZ 3. It is still 3 away from Japan so land based fighters/tacs cannot hit your fleet, but only 2 spaces from SZ 5 and landing in Korea. The only way a landing would be a good idea is if you could get a major factory purchased and producing units in Man. This could easily be done with an additional pair of carriers for your starting planes and an additional 2 transports, with a sprinkling of DDs for extra support. This would only require 1 turn of wartime purchase. For Japan to counter this, though, would simply require 2 Inf in Manchuria along with land based planes in Japan to retake Korea before you can do anything with it.
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We started our first game last saturday night but was not able to play this weekend. I am Japan and during my turn I took some Chinese territories, attacked and took the Philippines, and moved a fleet and some land units to Alaska. My oldest son is the US. On his turn he took out all of my Japanese fleet at Alaska and all but 2 of my land units in Alaska. He also moved all of his aircraft to Midway from Hawaii. The dice were not very friendly to me that night. My 2 remaining land units will be gone on the next US turn since I will not be able to move any other land units up there since my transports are gone. I could keep him busy in Alaska while I take some of my fleet from the Philippines and go after Hawaii. He will (I hope) focus on Alaska and move all of his fleet to Alaska since he won’t be expecting the Hawaii attack.
Has anyone tried this and did it work?
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i still have to give this a try…my friends tried a new japanese idea of going for the USA all at once last night…needless to say…the game didnt last very long…
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You can not make it from Alaska to SZ 5 in one turn with out the naval base… unless your map is different then mine. Sure, you could just take two turns to get there, but that leaves your invasion force vulnerable to both air and fleet attacks by Japan when they are stuck sitting for a turn in SZ4. It also means there is less pressure on Japan since they have an extra turn to deal with it.
The objective is not to take and hold Korea. In order for Japan to win the game, they really have to increase their income and put lots of pressure on the UK/China while controlling the DEI. In the early stages of the game, Japan has plenty of ships and aircraft to deal out a lot of damage. What they lack is the ground forces to take and hold a lot of territory and the income to rebuild the lost aircraft and ships while pumping ground units out from a factory in the mainland.
If you happen to get a foot hold in China, just drive your tanks around taking money away from Japan. Sure they can come take it back, but that requires them to divert land units from the advance on India and takes up some of the, now hard to come by income.
By setting up this move with the US, you limit Japan’s ability to heavily control the DEI since a large portion of their fleet and/or aircraft are sitting up north defending against the invasion of either Korea or Japan (they have to think about both since you can hit both in one turn once your fleet is parked in AK).
After the US wartime economy kicks in Japan can not trade ships and aircraft with the US and come out on top. The biggest problem I’ve seen with the US is getting that economy turned into combat effectiveness in the south pacific. Set this move up in the early stages of the game so Japan has to keep a watchful eye and counter measures tied up there. Then setup a decent fleet to head south which really puts Japan in big trouble.
All I’m saying is try this and see how much it cripples Japans ability to advance quickly.
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And i’m telling you that you shall loose all your transports used and navy defending them, and your invasion force will be crushed at a loss of some of japan’s airpower and the handful of ground units hanging out in Manchuria. If your not planning on putting a factory at Korea there is no real value in taking it. Your drop will not take place until turn what, 4 or 5? By then the manpower problems in asia should have solved themselves for japan with the factories on the mainland they build and with China being down to 1-3 inf a turn. The only viable gain for the US to go hard at Korea would be the intention of getting a factory there, then you could get enough ground units to be a thorn in japan’s side in mainland asia.
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All I’m saying is try this and see how much it cripples Japans ability to advance quickly.
As a ploy to engage the Japanese up north, then a Naval Base in Alaska might have some use. But if you come and make a blanket statement like ‘Naval Base in Alaska wins the game’…well…be prepared for people to refute that fairly vigorously ;)
And unfortunately, it seems a lot of people can’t refute a strategy or debate it’s merits without attacking the IQ/experience/comprehension of the person posting the strategy. You’ll note that anyone who has strong opinions on game balance/strategies will likely have a negative ‘karma’ rating. ;) That alone tells me that a lot of people are not prepared to discuss and debate but rather belittle and discount posted strats.
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Joe, that was the first thing I noticed about this site… people are not even willing to test a strategy out before they denounce it as having no value at all. I’ve seen this work in more then one game… and against me playing Japan. I’m by no means the best player out there, but I’ve been playing strategy games for over 20 years, so I’m not a retard when it comes to these things. lol
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Im going to try it again, with a factory, just not until I am at war this time.
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If you can plant and keep a factory there, even better!
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A factory there is silly.
Just build in WUS and move it there. That way you end up with an extra $12 of units on the board instead of a factory 2 zones from the American Capital.
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A factory there is silly.
Just build in WUS and move it there. That way you end up with an extra $12 of units on the board instead of a factory 2 zones from the American Capital.
The advantage is that you can use the IC to build 3 naval units that are in range of attacking right away on SZ6, forcing J to move to defend the area. The risk is that J might decide to take the factory.
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It’s not worth 12 IPC’s for that very slight advantage.
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It forces J to reply to it.
US saves 2 IPCs on US1 and ends with 24 IPCs. The moment J attacks the US builds a naval base and an IC there. US also moves his fleet to SZ1. Then the US can spend its entire income threatening SZ6.
Hmm, this might be a interesting idea.
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