Strange Questions regarding Transports, and Aircraft Carriers

[Gargantua]

Question #1)

a Japanese transport is sitting off the coast of Egypt.

On the German Turn, 1 germany infantry in Egypt loads himself into the Transport.

On the following Japanese Turn, in the combat movement phase, Japan loads 1 of it’s own Inf from Sudan, then moves the Transport south, and uloads in Madagascar Taking it empty, without loss.

On the following German turn, the Germans get off the transport and take South Africa Without loss.

Is this legal?

Question #2)

A Massive German Navy with 3 acc’s and 6 fgts is sitting in the Baltic Sea (Sz5) and is squared off against an equally massive British Navy in the North Sea Sz6

A smaller American Fleet is sitting in Sz12, and could be eradicated by the German Airforce that’s locked down in Sz5.  Except, that there is no where to land as GIB and ALG are in allied hands.  But…  If the German Aircraft Carriers, could move in the Non Combat phase, through Sz6, if that navy were to be destroyed.  This would be “Possible”.

So…  Knowing that without it’s airforce to combat the British Navy it has no chance of winning, but feeling the need to destroy the American fleet immediately,  German opts to send 1 submarine, against 20+ British Naval Units.  It dies of course.  But because it could have “Possibly” won, in 20 rounds of combat, against horribly inept dice, allowing the Aircraft Carriers to pass through Sz6.  I can make the Attack in Sz12, even though there is no reasonable possibility those aircraft will ever land.

Correct?

[Vareel]

1. no idea but I don’t think 2 powers are allowed inside the same trannie, no clue though

2. absolutely you can do this, and your planes and sub will die.  it is kinda cheezy though.

[Krieghund]

@Gargantua:

Question #1)

a Japanese transport is sitting off the coast of Egypt.

On the German Turn, 1 germany infantry in Egypt loads himself into the Transport.

On the following Japanese Turn, in the combat movement phase, Japan loads 1 of it’s own Inf from Sudan, then moves the Transport south, and uloads in Madagascar Taking it empty, without loss.

On the following German turn, the Germans get off the transport and take South Africa Without loss.

Is this legal?

Yes.

[Gargantua]

Awesome, Exactly what I thought on both accounts.

I guess there IS a point finally to actually load your inf into another powers transports.

So you can get Lightning Transports! That can essentially unload into multiple territories in the same “movement” but different turn orders!

MWAHAHAHA!

[Bardoly]

@Gargantua:

Question #2)

A Massive German Navy with 3 acc’s and 6 fgts is sitting in the Baltic Sea (Sz5) and is squared off against an equally massive British Navy in the North Sea Sz6

A smaller American Fleet is sitting in Sz12, and could be eradicated by the German Airforce that’s locked down in Sz5.  Except, that there is no where to land as GIB and ALG are in allied hands.  But…  If the German Aircraft Carriers, could move in the Non Combat phase, through Sz6, if that navy were to be destroyed.  This would be “Possible”.

So…  Knowing that without it’s airforce to combat the British Navy it has no chance of winning, but feeling the need to destroy the American fleet immediately,  German opts to send 1 submarine, against 20+ British Naval Units.   It dies of course.  But because it could have “Possibly” won, in 20 rounds of combat, against horribly inept dice, allowing the Aircraft Carriers to pass through Sz6.  I can make the Attack in Sz12, even though there is no reasonable possibility those aircraft will ever land.

Correct?

My understanding of the rules is that if the UK navy contained ANY air units (which your submarine could NEVER hit), then sending a sub against the fleet would not work, because the sub could NEVER, even with 100% perfect rolls, clear the sea zone for the aircraft carrier to go through.  A destroyer, cruiser, battleship, or an extra aircraft carrier not needed to pick up the supposedly all surviving fighters would need to be used to attack the UK fleet.  If the UK fleet contained NO fighters, then yes, the lone sub could be used in the manner that you suggested.

[axis_roll]

@Bardoly:

@Gargantua:

Question #2)

A Massive German Navy with 3 acc’s and 6 fgts is sitting in the Baltic Sea (Sz5) and is squared off against an equally massive British Navy in the North Sea Sz6

A smaller American Fleet is sitting in Sz12, and could be eradicated by the German Airforce that’s locked down in Sz5.  Except, that there is no where to land as GIB and ALG are in allied hands.  But…  If the German Aircraft Carriers, could move in the Non Combat phase, through Sz6, if that navy were to be destroyed.  This would be “Possible”.

So…  Knowing that without it’s airforce to combat the British Navy it has no chance of winning, but feeling the need to destroy the American fleet immediately,  German opts to send 1 submarine, against 20+ British Naval Units.   It dies of course.  But because it could have “Possibly” won, in 20 rounds of combat, against horribly inept dice, allowing the Aircraft Carriers to pass through Sz6.  I can make the Attack in Sz12, even though there is no reasonable possibility those aircraft will ever land.

Correct?

My understanding of the rules is that if the UK navy contained ANY air units (which your submarine could NEVER hit), then sending a sub against the fleet would not work, because the sub could NEVER, even with 100% perfect rolls, clear the sea zone for the aircraft carrier to go through.  A destroyer, cruiser, battleship, or an extra aircraft carrier not needed to pick up the supposedly all surviving fighters would need to be used to attack the UK fleet.  If the UK fleet contained NO fighters, then yes, the lone sub could be used in the manner that you suggested.

This is not true.  Sub can clear the Saa zone because if all that remained were defending ftrs, the sub would submerge, and the ftrs would need to land elsewhere within 1 territory … bottom line is that the sz would then be cleared for any NCM move thru it.

[Bardoly]

@axis_roll:

@Bardoly:

@Gargantua:

Question #2)

A Massive German Navy with 3 acc’s and 6 fgts is sitting in the Baltic Sea (Sz5) and is squared off against an equally massive British Navy in the North Sea Sz6

A smaller American Fleet is sitting in Sz12, and could be eradicated by the German Airforce that’s locked down in Sz5.  Except, that there is no where to land as GIB and ALG are in allied hands.  But…  If the German Aircraft Carriers, could move in the Non Combat phase, through Sz6, if that navy were to be destroyed.  This would be “Possible”.

So…  Knowing that without it’s airforce to combat the British Navy it has no chance of winning, but feeling the need to destroy the American fleet immediately,  German opts to send 1 submarine, against 20+ British Naval Units.   It dies of course.  But because it could have “Possibly” won, in 20 rounds of combat, against horribly inept dice, allowing the Aircraft Carriers to pass through Sz6.  I can make the Attack in Sz12, even though there is no reasonable possibility those aircraft will ever land.

Correct?

My understanding of the rules is that if the UK navy contained ANY air units (which your submarine could NEVER hit), then sending a sub against the fleet would not work, because the sub could NEVER, even with 100% perfect rolls, clear the sea zone for the aircraft carrier to go through.  A destroyer, cruiser, battleship, or an extra aircraft carrier not needed to pick up the supposedly all surviving fighters would need to be used to attack the UK fleet.  If the UK fleet contained NO fighters, then yes, the lone sub could be used in the manner that you suggested.

This is not true.  Sub can clear the Saa zone because if all that remained were defending ftrs, the sub would submerge, and the ftrs would need to land elsewhere within 1 territory … bottom line is that the sz would then be cleared for any NCM move thru it.

But fighters do not land until the very end of the non-combat phase.  That’s why one can’t land fighter in Gibraltar from a sz12 carrier which was destroyed to help defend in an amphibious assault from sz13 on the same turn.  If Gibraltar were successfully taken, and the fighters had no other legal landing spot, then they would be lost at sea.

[Krieghund]

Attacking fighters land at the end of the Mobilize New Units phase.  Defending fighters land at the beginning of the Noncombat Move phase.

[kcdzim]

@ShadowHAwk:

Would it not be much better and simpler to state that every move should be possible before combat is rolled?
To avoid these cheesy situations. It takes the carrier the whole turn to move 2 spots so if it does not start sailing the same time the fighters would launch they would not survive anyway.

That will severely hinder some of the tactical & strategic aspects of battles and planning and remove alot of the surprises from the game.  Regardless of how a battle turns out, one of my favorite aspects of the game is the surprise move or act of desperation that wasn’t expected or accounted for.  I’m satisfied that you can’t send your planes on a one way trip, but you CAN send them on a potentially suicidal mission.