Can a Nation Contribute Negative Victory Points to its Alliance?

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

In Operation Live and Let Die, Great Britain currently has achieved 1 point for “Contain Communism”, 1 point for “Maintain the Empire”, and could get 1 point for Mediterranean Security if they move a capital ship into the Med (which they can do). However, Great Britain has lost four Home Country territories. I know Page 16, 3.4 states, “A nation that has surrendered has a total score of zero Victory Points.” But that doesn’t apply since Great Britain still holds London.

Can a nation contribute a negative victory point total to its alliance?

By strict reading of the rules, I would hazard to guess that Great Britain contributes a -1 to its alliance’s overall victory points. Do you agree?

[Trig]

@hbg-gw-enthusiast I would have to agree. That said, I don’t know. That is an unusual circumstance, but it could be important.
That said, Great Britain doesn’t surrender until all of Ottawa, London, South Africa, Calcutta, and Sydney are enemy controlled. Just and FYI id they are thinking about throwing London to avoid that -1.

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

@trig Interesting!

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

The Veteran brought up an excellent point. Page 16, 3.3 Loss of Victory Points Due to Captured Home Country Land Zones reads, “A nation loses one Victory Point for each land zone worth at least 1 IPP in its Home Country that is Enemy-possessed at the end of the game.” The Veteran notes the verbiage is “A nation loses one Victory Point…” It’s not the Alliance, but rather the nation. Further, it doesn’t say the nation contributes a negative one Victory Point to its Alliance. It specifically says the nation loses a Victory Point. So his argument is that a nation cannot lose a Victory Point it does not possess. So if a nation has only generated 2 Victory Points, but could potentially lose 3, it’s like the nation went bankrupt on Victory Points and cannot lose one it doesn’t have. So you can’t go negative on Victory Points as a nation. This argument is persuasive to me.

[SpartanTom]

@hbg-gw-enthusiast I agree with you, negative victory points don’t really make sense any way since a surrendered nation doesn’t score points so that would be strange that a nation that didn’t surrender would score less than a nation that has surrendered.

I have a question regarding the negative points: what about KMT and CCP? Rules 3.3 says “nations” so does it apply to minor powers too? If it applies to them to does that mean they get victory points removed as soon as they are at war with Japan since Japan controls Formosa and all of Manchuria? I would say Hong-Kong doesn’t really matter since the rules says “enemy-possessed”.

So, does it apply to all the home country territories even the one you don’t have at the start of the game?

Or does it apply only to the territories you have at the beginning of the game?

Or it simply doesn’t apply to CCP and KMT?

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

@spartantom You totally read my mind, SpartanTom! I concluded that basically it’s nearly impossible for the CCP to score points because they just can’t defend their Home Country. If I could go back in a time machine in Operation Live and Let Die, I would capture Nanking with USSR so CCP had fewer Victory Points.

I really like your argument that when you surrender you get zero, so zero is the worst score a nation should have. You shouldn’t be punished if you avoided surrender.

[GeneralHandGrenade]

A nation cannot go below 0 Victory Points.

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

@generalhandgrenade said in Can a Nation Contribute Negative Victory Points to its Alliance?:

A nation cannot go below 0 Victory Points.

Thanks so much, General Hand Grenade!

[Trig]

@spartantom I would apply it, they are nations. It just makes it alot harder for them to get VPs. You basically have to become a major power.