@noneshallpass haha yeah I got that your all saying the same thing sorry my wording maybe. Thank you guys
Terrains modifiers that affect land units movements
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@spartantom said in Terrains modifiers that affect land units movements:
@theveteran
So does that mean I can’t blitz from Aquitaine to Northern Italy through Southern France since there is a mountain on the border between Southern France and Northern Italy ?This is the disagreement between The Veteran and myself. I say you can go from Aquitaine to Northern Italy with armor, he says you can’t.
But we both agree you cannot go from Northern Italy to Aquitaine with armor.
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@theveteran
Ok thank you very much, just to explain myself more clearly my reasoning was:Because the rule 1.7 says “assume you are standing right at the border”. So, my guess was: I start at the border of Aquitaine and then go to the roundel in Southern France, no mountains. Then second move I stand at the border of Southern France and go to the Northern Italy’s roundel. In that case I didn’t cross the mountain border between Southern France and Northern Italy, but I might be wrong.
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@spartantom said in Terrains modifiers that affect land units movements:
@theveteran
Ok thank you very much, just to explain myself more clearly my reasoning was:Because the rule 1.7 says “assume you are standing right at the border”. So, my guess was: I start at the border of Aquitaine and then go to the roundel in Southern France, no mountains. Then second move I stand at the border of Southern France and go to the Northern Italy’s roundel. In that case I didn’t cross the mountain border between Southern France and Northern Italy, but I might be wrong.
You do assume you are standing right at the border, but don’t forget the part about “the territory you are standing in does not count.” You are right at the border and the moment you cross into the next territory is when it affects you.
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@spartantom the 2nd move is considered roundel to roundel : not border to roundel .
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@theveteran
I see, does that mean I also get the river penalty then ?@hbg-gw-enthusiast
Yes that’s what I assumed too -
@spartantom said in Terrains modifiers that affect land units movements:
@theveteran
I see, does that mean I also get the river penalty then ?Yes, when going from Northern Italy to Southern France, you face the river penalty.
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@hbg-gw-enthusiast the very first territory you start in you are considered to be at the border (therefore not affected by the territory you start in) but the rest of the movement is roundel to roundel
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@spartantom yes you get the River penalty
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@hbg-gw-enthusiast
Yes of course, I know that. My question was: since @theveteran says the second move is roundel to roundel, do you get the river penalty in addition since there is a river in Southern France when you go from Aquitaine to Northern Italy? So, the movement isn’t allowed since there is a mountain at the border however, if I understood well, if you have a cavalry in Aquitaine and you possess Southern France if you do a combat move into Northern Italy through Southern France you will suffer river penalty (on the first round obviously) since there is a river between the roundels and you have to consider all terrain modifier that are between the roundels for the second movement. -
@spartantom
Your scenario was what happens when an armor unit moves from Aquitaine to Southern France and tries to go on to Northern Italy. We never clarified if Southern France is friendly or enemy-possessed. I assumed we were talking about Southern France being friendly because in Global War 1936-1945, you cannot “blitz” through an empty territory like you can in Axis & Allies. Let’s just make sure we are all on the same page that in your armor movement example, Southern France is friendly. In Global War 1936-1945, if both Southern France and Northern Italy were enemy-possessed, then moving on to Northern Italy during combat movement would be illegal.In your armor movement scenario, are we talking about Southern France being friendly? If so, then when the armor moves from Southern France to Northern Italy, you do not face a river penalty.
In your armor movement scenario, if Southern France is enemy-possessed, you could combat move into it, but could not blitz to Northern Italy due to the rule on Page 8, 1.8 Mountains, “Units cannot blitz across an Enemy Mountain border or into Mountain terrain.”
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@spartantom said in Terrains modifiers that affect land units movements:
@hbg-gw-enthusiast
Yes of course, I know that. My question was: since @theveteran says the second move is roundel to roundel, do you get the river penalty in addition since there is a river in Southern France when you go from Aquitaine to Northern Italy? So, the movement isn’t allowed since there is a mountain at the border however, if I understood well, if you have a cavalry in Aquitaine and you possess Southern France if you do a combat move into Northern Italy through Southern France you will suffer river penalty (on the first round obviously) since there is a river between the roundels and you have to consider all terrain modifier that are between the roundels for the second movement.If you have a cavalry in Aquitaine and Southern France is friendly, then you do not face a river penalty when moving to Northern Italy.
@theveteran Do you agree with me here about the cavalry not facing the river penalty in this situation? If so, then I think you should reverse your opinion about an armor moving from Aquitaine through a friendly Southern France into Northern Italy.
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@hbg-gw-enthusiast terrain still affects you in friendly territory, that doesn’t change anything : you are still crossing a River with the cavalry and will face the River penalty. - friendly territory doesn’t mean the terrain is magically flat , or magically ignored when traveling through it. For example tanks do not move 2 when moving in Russia through the mountains when all territories are Soviet controlled (in the east) .
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@theveteran said in Terrains modifiers that affect land units movements:
@hbg-gw-enthusiast terrain still affects you in friendly territory, that doesn’t change anything : you are still crossing a River with the cavalry and will face the River penalty.
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It’s July, 1939 and you are a neutral Germany. You declare war on Belgium and attack with units from West Germany. You believe you face the river penalty?
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Same situation, but you bring a medium armor from Berlin. Do you believe that armor incurs the river penalty?
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@theveteran said in Terrains modifiers that affect land units movements:
@hbg-gw-enthusiast terrain still affects you in friendly territory, that doesn’t change anything : you are still crossing a River with the cavalry and will face the River penalty. - friendly territory doesn’t mean the terrain is magically flat , or magically ignored when traveling through it. For example tanks do not move 2 when moving in Russia through the mountains when all territories are Soviet controlled (in the east) .
Page 9, 1.12 Rivers, “Land units that must cross river artwork in the attacked land zone before reaching the roundel in that land zone are subject to river rules.”
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There is no penalty because you started in west Germany. The territory you begin in doesn’t effect movement. / combat .
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Yes the River penalty would occur because you crossed a river during movement.
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@theveteran said in Terrains modifiers that affect land units movements:
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There is no penalty because you started in west Germany. The territory you begin in doesn’t effect movement. / combat .
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Yes the River penalty would occur because you crossed a river during movement.
See my post back on page 1, put in like a second before you.
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@hbg-gw-enthusiast hmm okay rivers rules read a bit differently than mountain rules. So that would mean there is no penalty when crossing the River in Southern France IF friendly before combat moves.
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@theveteran No problem.
Ok, now back to mountainous borders. I’m not saying terrain is magically flat if it is friendly. The way you can be certain that I don’t believe that is to scroll back and read where I said if the armor were in Northern Italy and moving through a friendly Southern France, it would not be allowed to continue on to Aquitaine the same turn.
I’m saying that when a land zone is friendly, then border terrain doesn’t start affecting you until the moment you cross the border. And the river rules give a hint that my perspective may be the correct one.
Sidenote on Game Design: There are two ways game designers can approach movement costs: walls or quicksand. With the walls approach, you are not permitted to move unless you have sufficient movement. If I understand Global War’s system, it is a quicksand one. You are allowed to go in, but then get penalized and stuck. This is the way I conceptualize it. I may be wrong, but I know Morten’s approach in general is to give the player choices with consequences. Other game designers forbid players from doing things.
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